WEBVTT NOTE Bush, Terrorism, and Freedom 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.000 Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate that. It's great to be down here in Auburn. 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:09.000 It's my first time down here. It's inspiring to be among all these hardliners here. 3 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:13.000 Might have a good influence on me to counteract living in Washington. 4 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:17.000 Is that working? Can you hear it in the back? 5 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:21.000 This has been a real good week for me. A lot of good things have happened. 6 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:26.000 I got noticed a couple days ago. Actually, I filed the application about eight months ago, 7 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:33.000 but I just heard on Wednesday that I've been approved by the INS and FAA to have flight training school down in Florida. 8 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:43.000 And, you know, I was a little bit worried about it because I was afraid if the FAA heard I was speaking at the Mises Institute 9 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:52.000 that, you know, that they might consider me a terrorist risk, but I guess the FAA is not that well organized yet. 10 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:57.000 You know, it's probably in the same category as the rest of the government. 11 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:02.000 You know, I want to talk a little bit about freedom and terrorism and what the Bush administration is doing. 12 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:10.000 It's fascinating to see how Bush is playing these themes and how almost all the media is buying into his rhetoric and his spiel. 13 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:16.000 Two weeks after the 9-11 attacks, George Bush announced that the terrorists have, quote, 14 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:29.000 has awoken a mighty nation that understands that freedom is under assault, a mighty nation that will not rest until those who think they can take freedom away from any citizen in the world are brought to justice. 15 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:40.000 You know, from one point that sounds very libertarian, unfortunately, this is from a speech that Bush made to FBI agents at FBI headquarters. 16 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:49.000 And it was a speech he made just after his Justice Department had proposed an anti-terrorism bill, which among other things would have cancelled habeas corpus. 17 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:59.000 But Bush keeps invoking freedom almost on a daily basis. It was one of the themes of the State of the Union Address, and he's gotten away with it. 18 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:07.000 Yet since September 11th, the Bush administration has moved far along to turning America into a two-tier society. 19 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:12.000 Those who the law fails to bind and those who the law fails to protect. 20 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:20.000 Thanks to the success of 19 terrorists, Federal agents could have far more power over all Americans in perpetuity. 21 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:29.000 The Bush's USA Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism bill rushing the law after the attack, is perhaps the biggest bait and switch in US constitutional history. 22 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:36.000 This is a law which treats every citizen as a suspected terrorist and every Federal agent as a proven angel. 23 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:45.000 But unfortunately, the vast majority of the new power the government has seized will do little or nothing to make Americans safer. 24 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:52.000 I want to talk a few things about some of the different aspects of this Patriot Act. 25 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:58.000 There's been a little bit of it in the press, but a lot of it's been kind of, they've either soft-pedaled the criticism, 26 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:01.000 or else it seems like they're getting their information from the Justice Department. 27 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:09.000 Department, but something we now have thanks to this Patriot Act is nationwide roving wiretaps. 28 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:15.000 It's easy for the Justice Department to go in and get a warrant now and say that, well, that there's a suspect 29 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:23.000 who might be using a telephone at Auburn or something like that, and voila, the feds can come in and get a wiretap 30 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:30.000 on almost all those phones. If a suspect is using several phones in a Boston airport, for instance, the feds can put 31 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:41.000 There is no need to try and target the actual violator and perpetrator for surveillance. 32 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:50.000 It's even worse with email, though. Thanks to this new law, the FBI's got a green light to vacuum up the nation's email. 33 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:58.000 Congress, for the first time in this bill, officially approved and encouraged the FBI to use its carnivore email wiretapping system. 34 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:28.000 I don't know how much y'all have heard about carnivore and first it first came to light about I think in the summer of 2000 and it was kind of funny that the FBI would name a wiretapping program carnivore you know and there was there was a little controversy about that and someone said well you know but the reason that it had that name was the FBI thought people would never learn about its existence so I mean that certainly explains it but something that the Congress of the Justice Department has done it has changed the 35 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:34.080 Program's name. It's now something like DSL 5000 or something like that. It's some nice 36 00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:41.080 arcane name that helps people sleep at night. But carnivore is contained in a black box 37 00:04:41.460 --> 00:04:46.880 that the FBI compels internet service providers to attach to monitor all the email their system 38 00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:53.880 handles. Though a carnivore cap might be imposed because of a single targeted client, the software 39 00:04:53.880 --> 00:05:03.880 If you're a well-targeted client, the software sets that it automatically intercepts all the email going through that ISP. 40 00:05:03.880 --> 00:05:09.880 And the standard for imposing that first wiretap is almost non-existent. 41 00:05:09.880 --> 00:05:18.880 The only thing an FBI agent has to do is certify to a judge that the information sought is, quote, relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation. 42 00:05:18.880 --> 00:05:24.880 All he has to say, and then they automatically can install the carnivore and suck up everybody's email. 43 00:05:24.880 --> 00:05:34.880 Judges have no power on this. The judges must approve the wiretaps based on the federal agent's unsubstantiated assertions. 44 00:05:34.880 --> 00:05:46.880 It doesn't matter if the person is being targeted for trying to smuggle in a nuclear bomb or if he's accused of dodging taxes, $100 in his IRS, Form 1040. 45 00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:57.880 It doesn't matter if the citizen is guilty or innocent, it's putting wiretaps on automatic pilots and making wiretaps far more sweeping than they've ever been before. 46 00:05:57.880 --> 00:06:01.880 And there are other things that are compounding this damage. 47 00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:13.880 For instance, the Patriot Act makes it very easy to get permission to do sneak and peek searches now, in which the feds come in, FBI comes in or other agents come in and do a secret search in your house 48 00:06:13.880 --> 00:06:22.880 and perhaps notify you a few days later that they visited and perhaps give you a list of the things which they carried off, perhaps not. 49 00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:30.880 I mean, and some of these search warrants could be gotten on an ex-fo facto basis. 50 00:06:30.880 --> 00:06:34.880 So it's really done wonders for the flexibility for federal agents. 51 00:06:34.880 --> 00:06:42.880 You know, it certainly made their jobs easier, but there are other things which are just compounding these dangers level by level. 52 00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:52.880 level by level. For instance, something the FBI is doing now, it's doing much more often now, it's installing keystroke monitoring software on people's computers. 53 00:06:52.880 --> 00:07:03.880 This means that once this software is installed, that the FBI doesn't need to be there, it doesn't need to be within five miles, but the FBI can track every word you type, every letter you type. 54 00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:09.880 And this is a way to completely defeat things like pretty good privacy software or other encryption software 55 00:07:09.880 --> 00:07:12.880 because the whole key to those is your password. 56 00:07:12.880 --> 00:07:20.880 And if the FBI can do a keystroke monitoring to find out what your password is, well, that certainly simplifies their job. 57 00:07:20.880 --> 00:07:27.880 Something else that the FBI is up to is something called Project Cyber Night, which they're finishing up something called Magic Lantern, 58 00:07:27.880 --> 00:07:33.960 which is a computer virus which they're planning to insert into targeted computers. 59 00:07:33.960 --> 00:07:39.720 Now the USA PICARD Act imposed very heavy sentences, even a life sentence for computer 60 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:44.400 hackers to go around making these kind of vicious software that goes out and destroys 61 00:07:44.400 --> 00:07:45.400 people's computers. 62 00:07:45.400 --> 00:07:49.400 But it doesn't apply to federal agents. 63 00:07:49.400 --> 00:07:52.200 So this is one more example. 64 00:07:52.200 --> 00:07:57.100 And it's interesting, it's amazing there was so little criticism in the news media 65 00:07:57.100 --> 00:08:05.220 about the ominous aspects of this law, because the news media, well, most of the news media 66 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:10.780 got through information to the Justice Department, the Justice Department told them not to worry. 67 00:08:10.780 --> 00:08:16.340 But for instance, this is a law that the scope is so much broader than what people realize. 68 00:08:16.340 --> 00:08:22.140 People think, well, it's for terrorists, for the guys that walk around with the Palestinian 69 00:08:22.140 --> 00:08:24.660 headdress and have bombs under their shirts. 70 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:25.660 No, it's not. 71 00:08:25.660 --> 00:08:30.660 I mean, okay, that's one group of terrorists, but the law is so much more expansive. 72 00:08:30.660 --> 00:08:38.660 For instance, the act defines terrorism as activities involving acts dangerous to human life 73 00:08:38.660 --> 00:08:45.660 that, quote, may appear to be intended to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion. 74 00:08:45.660 --> 00:08:48.660 This is different than what the government does. 75 00:08:48.660 --> 00:08:51.660 If the government uses intimidation or coercion, 76 00:08:51.660 --> 00:08:56.660 If the government uses intimidation or coercion, then it's public service, not terrorism. 77 00:08:56.660 --> 00:09:06.660 But this is a very expansive definition of terrorism, and there are a lot of groups that could be swept in under this broad definition. 78 00:09:06.660 --> 00:09:13.660 For instance, and it would only take a few scuffles at a demonstration to have an entire group classified as terrorists. 79 00:09:13.660 --> 00:09:19.660 For instance, if there was a, you know, there's a lot of environmental extremists who have done, 80 00:09:19.660 --> 00:09:33.660 And some of them have actually been charged under existing terrorism statutes, but it'd be possible to classify large groups of them as terrorists, people who are opposed to free trade, or anti-abortion protesters. 81 00:09:33.660 --> 00:09:43.660 Now, and something which is especially ominous here is it'd be possible for the violence at a demonstration to be done by a governed undercover agent. 82 00:09:43.660 --> 00:09:48.660 And it would still qualify that the entire group could be called terrorists because, well, there was violence at their demonstration. 83 00:09:48.660 --> 00:09:51.660 Doesn't matter. It was done by an FBI agent posing. 84 00:09:51.660 --> 00:09:56.660 This happened in the 1960s anti-war demonstrations again and again and again. 85 00:09:56.660 --> 00:10:00.660 The folks who were most violent often turned out to be the government agents. 86 00:10:00.660 --> 00:10:03.660 There's a history of this with the Ku Klux Klan as well. 87 00:10:03.660 --> 00:10:06.660 Now, but it's not only people who go to these kind of demonstrations. 88 00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:14.660 The law now is very strict on people who make donations to these kind of groups. 89 00:10:14.660 --> 00:10:22.660 And say if someone gave a donation to Greenpeace, to Operation Rescue, or the gun owners of America, 90 00:10:22.660 --> 00:10:28.660 and at some point the feds chose to reclassify those groups as terrorist entities. 91 00:10:28.660 --> 00:10:32.660 I mean, certainly the gun owners of America should not be classified that way. 92 00:10:32.660 --> 00:10:41.660 are a peaceful group, but it'd be possible for the feds to reclassify groups under that, under those kind of categories and drop the hammer on them. 93 00:10:41.660 --> 00:10:44.660 Another, it could even happen to church groups. 94 00:10:44.660 --> 00:10:54.660 From the early 80s to the last several years, the Church of Scientology was engaged in a very tough fight with the Internal Revenue Service. 95 00:10:54.660 --> 00:11:01.660 The Internal Revenue Service had been very rough with them and the Scientologists treated the IRS like the IRS treats everybody else. 96 00:11:01.660 --> 00:11:05.660 And, you know, it was kind of fun to watch the sidelines. 97 00:11:05.660 --> 00:11:14.660 And finally, there was a settlement reached and the IRS backed off of some of their harassment of the Scientologists. 98 00:11:14.660 --> 00:11:27.660 But with this law, it would be far easier for the federal government to classify the Scientologists as a terrorist group simply because they had counter-pressured the government in response to the pressure that they had had. 99 00:11:27.660 --> 00:11:35.660 Now, a lot of people are thinking that, okay, well, this is bad, this is bad, you know, the terrorists, terrorists are bad people and maybe it's a little bit expansive. 100 00:11:35.660 --> 00:11:42.660 What people don't realize is that most of the changes to the criminal code that were made by this act don't apply simply to the terrorists. 101 00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:49.660 They apply to anybody who violates any of the 3,000 different federal crimes in the federal statute book. 102 00:11:49.660 --> 00:11:57.660 I mean, this is a law which has changed the concept of due process across the board for people charged with federal crimes. 103 00:11:57.660 --> 00:12:03.660 And it was rushed through with almost no hearings and almost no floor debate. 104 00:12:03.660 --> 00:12:10.660 There was a congressman from New York, Nadler, who's usually very bad on most issues, but he proposed an amendment saying that, 105 00:12:10.660 --> 00:12:17.660 okay, well, let's do this for the terrorists, but let's not make the law apply to everybody else, every other criminal defendant. 106 00:12:17.660 --> 00:12:31.660 But the GOT floor chairman, Ascension Brenner, said, well, it's important to have this, to make it so expansive and broad because perhaps someone who starts out doing one crime might later turn into a terrorist. 107 00:12:31.660 --> 00:12:37.660 I mean, it's fascinating to see the kind of arguments that get respected in Washington. 108 00:12:37.660 --> 00:12:42.660 I mean, it's the kind of thing that sober people should be, you know, laughing, falling on their chairs on. 109 00:12:42.660 --> 00:12:48.260 in Amazon, but somebody says this on the floor of the House of Representatives, and the other congressmen say, 110 00:12:48.260 --> 00:13:04.660 well, yep, sounds good to me. It's sort of like Hey Vern logic. You see these guys, and my sense is that most people watching 111 00:13:04.660 --> 00:13:12.060 Congress are somewhat partially blinded by the idea of, oh, these are congressmen. But if you just think of them as 112 00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:18.060 And if the average human being is talking about what they don't know, I mean, then it's a very different thing. 113 00:13:18.060 --> 00:13:24.060 And especially with a bill like this, the USA Patriot Act, this has profound impact on American's constitutional rights. 114 00:13:24.060 --> 00:13:28.060 It has decimated people's rights in a number of different areas. 115 00:13:28.060 --> 00:13:34.060 And my guess is that a number of provisions in this law will be struck down because they're unconstitutional. 116 00:13:34.060 --> 00:13:36.060 That's my hope. 117 00:13:36.060 --> 00:14:06.060 But it's, you know, congressmen take a solemn oath to obey the Constitution, and there were a number of Democrats who made good arguments against the bill, and the thing came up again and again from the Grand Old Party Conservatives, Grand Old Party Conservatives, was that, well, but it's not our intention to violate the Constitution. It's not, you know, seriously, seriously, you know, they would say, oh, but, you know, but there is nothing in this bill that says it cancels the Fourth Amendment. 118 00:14:06.060 --> 00:14:09.060 Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. 119 00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:11.060 It doesn't say that in the bill. 120 00:14:11.060 --> 00:14:15.060 Well, you know, since they hadn't read the bill, I guess that they wouldn't matter. 121 00:14:15.060 --> 00:14:22.060 But, yeah, so this is a bill which changes how the government could treat people across the board. 122 00:14:22.060 --> 00:14:27.060 And, you know, it could even impact, well, it could impact almost everything. 123 00:14:27.060 --> 00:14:35.060 It's in some ways much worse than what happened with the RICO Acts and the Asset Forfeiture Acts in the 70s and early 80s. 124 00:14:35.060 --> 00:14:41.560 People thought, okay, RICO is going to beat up the mafia, the asset forfeiture is going to shut down the drug dealers. 125 00:14:41.560 --> 00:14:49.060 Well, that's starting to expand like a mushroom cloud, and now there's over 200 different federal crimes right now, 126 00:14:49.060 --> 00:14:55.060 which the government can come in and confiscate your assets under the Forfeiture Acts, and most of them have nothing to do with drug policy. 127 00:14:55.060 --> 00:15:03.060 It's interesting how Bush has framed his holy war against terrorism, because that's what it's turning into. 128 00:15:03.060 --> 00:15:08.500 to, Bush has made a lot of statements that were very much in favor of liberty, but he 129 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:13.820 made an early statement last October, Bush said that so long as anybody is terrorizing 130 00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:19.740 established governments, there needs to be a war. 131 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:24.100 Now this is a different standard than saying that you're going to try and stand up for 132 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:27.100 liberty in every place, every place all over the world. 133 00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:32.740 But just from his other actions, I'm kind of guessing that as far as his personal conviction 134 00:15:32.740 --> 00:15:38.740 that this statement is closer to his honest belief than the first one about his standing up for liberty every place. 135 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:48.740 And it's interesting how the war on terrorism has lowered the barriers against the expansion of government power around the globe. 136 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:54.740 There was a UN resolution shortly after 9-11 which encouraged governments to take anti-terrorism steps. 137 00:15:54.740 --> 00:15:59.860 Steps, and the UN has got a couple thousand pages of reports from governments around the 138 00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:07.140 world which has bragged about what they have done to fight terrorism. 139 00:16:07.140 --> 00:16:12.300 For instance, the government of Cuba, as part of its war on terrorism, has added a new law 140 00:16:12.300 --> 00:16:16.500 that allows the death penalty for anyone who uses the internet to incite violence against 141 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:21.220 the Cuban government. 142 00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:36.220 It's even better in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe's war on terrorism includes a proposal to make a crime to make any comment critical of President Robert Mugabe. 143 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:46.220 And it's kind of funny to see what other governments brag about. Syria sent in a response to the UN and bragged that Syria does not give financial support to terrorists. 144 00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:50.220 and it's sure of that because the entire banking system is controlled by the government. 145 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:56.220 So there is no risk of money going to terrorists. 146 00:16:56.220 --> 00:16:59.220 But this is what the war on terrorism is. 147 00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:02.220 There was a statement by one of the top UN human rights officers. 148 00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:07.220 He said that in some countries, nonviolent activities have been considered as terrorism 149 00:17:07.220 --> 00:17:11.220 and excessive measures have been taken to suppress or restrict individual rights, 150 00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:15.220 including the presumption of innocence, the right to a fair trial, freedom from torture, 151 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:30.220 The privacy rights and the right to seek asylum, these are all part of the war on terrorism in various places around the country, and certainly our own USA Patriot Act is an example of the government going far too far. 152 00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:44.220 You know, Bush's rhetoric, he's trying to encourage people to think that the terrorism is worse than almost anything else imaginable, that the terrorism is the worst, is the art sin of the universe. 153 00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:53.220 Unfortunately, governments around the world have committed far worse abuses than has the al-Qaeda group or any other terrorist network. 154 00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:57.220 Mass murder was the most memorable achievement of governments in the 20th century. 155 00:17:57.220 --> 00:18:02.220 Some estimates governments killed over 170 million people in various ways. 156 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:12.220 And by saying that terrorist attacks are the ultimate evil, the war on terrorism implicitly sanctifies whatever governments choose to do to fight terrorism. 157 00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:20.220 But in the long run, most people in this world have a lot more to fear from their own government than they do from foreign terrorists. 158 00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:22.220 But this has been completely forgotten. 159 00:18:22.220 --> 00:18:33.220 And Bush's comments on established governments, it's the kind of thing which you would think the White House would put out an official apology or correction. 160 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:38.220 But instead he just keeps going on making more and more statements, most of them not as extreme. 161 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:42.220 It's interesting with Bush how righteous he's been. 162 00:18:42.220 --> 00:18:49.220 It's almost been a change in his face when he speaks in public since last September. 163 00:18:49.220 --> 00:18:51.220 There's so much more arrogance there. 164 00:18:51.220 --> 00:18:58.220 Bush has proclaimed that there is a great moral and ideological divide 165 00:18:58.220 --> 00:19:01.220 on the one side of the U.S. and other anti-terrorism governments, 166 00:19:01.220 --> 00:19:05.220 on the other side the grudges of humanity who must be exterminated, basically. 167 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:11.220 But it's funny to see how the U.S. government righteousness is a parody of recent history. 168 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:18.220 Back in 1998, the State Department condemned the Kosovo Liberation Army for its terrorist actions. 169 00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:27.220 In 1999, the U.S. government relabeled them as freedom fighters to help support our bombing campaign against Serbia. 170 00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:33.220 And the Bush administration is still treating the KLA as if they were freedom fighters and not terrorists, 171 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:38.820 In spite of all the Serbian churches they have blown up in the last two years since the U.S. intervened and gave them control. 172 00:19:38.820 --> 00:19:48.220 Bush got extremely angry about the terrorists who had mailed anthrax to U.S. government buildings. 173 00:19:48.220 --> 00:19:53.420 He cited that as one of the worst examples he could think of of terrorism. 174 00:19:53.420 --> 00:19:57.820 But if you think of what the U.S. government itself is doing in South America, 175 00:19:57.820 --> 00:20:16.820 We are fumigating a part of South America, the northern part, we're going in there, we have poisoned children, we have destroyed legal crops, we have just created great disruption, and we have helped feed a civil war that has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths. 176 00:20:16.820 --> 00:20:23.820 And that is chemical warfare as much as a few packets of anthrax mailed to U.S. government offices. 177 00:20:23.820 --> 00:20:34.820 Another example, Bush in the U.S. has talked about the Al Qaeda, about them using jet liners as weapons, as an example of the apex of depravity. 178 00:20:34.820 --> 00:20:43.820 But for 15 years, the U.S. government supported Jonas Savimbi, who's a rebel leader in Angola, and one of his tactics was to shoot down civilian airliners. 179 00:20:43.820 --> 00:20:54.820 Okay, he didn't hijack them, but still, this is a US ally and he's out there shooting down civilian airliners and that's fine. 180 00:20:54.820 --> 00:21:04.820 Another example of the hypocrisy of the double standard and how Bush judges terrorism and how he judges governments is US foreign aid. 181 00:21:04.820 --> 00:21:11.820 Bush has been very proud that his administration has shut down a number of these Muslim charities. 182 00:21:11.820 --> 00:21:22.820 The standard for evidence, as far as I can tell, is that somebody somewhere has heard a rumor from 1994 or a little bit later, and that's practically it. 183 00:21:22.820 --> 00:21:30.820 In some of these cases, the government has presented no evidence. They have simply said, well, we have reason to suspect. 184 00:21:30.820 --> 00:21:38.820 That's all that's necessary for the government to come in and freeze the assets or to seize them in some cases and just completely destroy the organization. 185 00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:46.820 President Bush was asked in a press conference how much money being funneled to one of these terrorist groups is too much. 186 00:21:46.820 --> 00:21:51.820 Bush said that one dime of money into a terrorist activity is one dime too much. 187 00:21:51.820 --> 00:21:59.820 Bush also declared those who do business with terror will do no business with the U.S. or anywhere else the U.S. can reach. 188 00:21:59.820 --> 00:22:05.820 But the U.S. government itself fails this one-dime test. 189 00:22:05.820 --> 00:22:17.820 If a person has any reasonable concept of terrorism and looks at who's doing the most to brutalize people, it's third world governments around the world. 190 00:22:17.820 --> 00:22:23.820 The U.S. right now is giving more than $10 billion in foreign aid each year to these foreign governments. 191 00:22:23.820 --> 00:22:28.820 Foreign aid is aid from governments to governments for governments. 192 00:22:28.820 --> 00:22:32.820 Almost all of it ends up being controlled by the politicians. 193 00:22:32.820 --> 00:22:36.820 So it doesn't make sense to say, well, but it was for a good cause. 194 00:22:36.820 --> 00:22:42.820 Well, it's too bad it went to the secret police, you know, before it went to the school lunch program. 195 00:22:42.820 --> 00:22:45.820 But that's, I mean, there's very little control of that. 196 00:22:45.820 --> 00:22:52.820 And if you look at some of the countries, the U.S. Bush wants to give $20 million to the government of Uzbekistan this year. 197 00:22:52.820 --> 00:22:57.820 Now, there's some nitpickers at Human Rights Watch. 198 00:22:57.820 --> 00:23:27.820 These nitpickers have complained that the Uzbek government officials have sought to enlighten dissidents with methods such as beating, electric shock, temporary suffocation, hanging by the ankles or wrists, tearing out their fingernails, and punctures with sharp objects. And now this is all being underwritten by your tax dollars. And it's the same with our aid. We're sending troops and other aid to the government of Georgia right now. 199 00:23:27.820 --> 00:23:39.820 And as far as I can tell, from what I read, the governor of Georgia now has an even worse human rights record than the state of Georgia had when Lester Maddox was governor. 200 00:23:39.820 --> 00:23:50.820 I mean, you know, that's not an easy standard to reach, but the former communist henchman achieves that. 201 00:23:50.820 --> 00:23:56.820 And if you look at our foreign aid elsewhere, there's dozens of countries with very bad records. 202 00:23:56.820 --> 00:24:26.820 I mean, there's a flood of U.S. foreign aid going to Middle Eastern governments, Egypt, Israel, Palestinian Authority, they all have very bad human rights records, and it's almost like we're trying to balance out that, well, it's, you know, but it doesn't matter because it's the, there's this fantasy that we're building peace that way by helping pay for, helping underwrite governments throughout the region that have had horrific policies. Something else the U.S. is doing, the U.S. government is the largest 203 00:24:26.820 --> 00:24:38.820 The World Bank will slop out money to almost any government willing to fill out a loan application. 204 00:24:38.820 --> 00:24:44.820 Thanks to that, the World Bank has bankrolled some of the worst atrocities of the last couple decades. 205 00:24:44.820 --> 00:24:51.820 The World Bank financed the forced resettlement of villagers in Tanzania, 206 00:24:51.820 --> 00:24:55.820 the slaughter and resettlement of Ethiopian farmers. 207 00:24:55.820 --> 00:25:06.820 They've paid for a lot of abuses out in Indonesia. Millions of people have had their lives uprooted and ruined thanks to the World Bank and thanks to the U.S. bankrolling of the World Bank. 208 00:25:06.820 --> 00:25:10.820 And yet, for some reason, we're not supposed to think about that when it comes to terrorism. 209 00:25:10.820 --> 00:25:20.820 It's almost as if the Bush administration wants people to think of terrorism as, well, it's not terrorism because the person was wearing a government uniform. 210 00:25:20.820 --> 00:25:25.820 But, you know, that is the ultimate black hole of the entire Bush approach to terrorism. 211 00:25:25.820 --> 00:25:31.820 You can't exempt governments and think you're going to have peace. 212 00:25:31.820 --> 00:25:37.820 But it's funny seeing some of the Bush administration's comments on freedom, 213 00:25:37.820 --> 00:25:43.820 because it's almost as if the Bush administration's affection for freedom is so intense 214 00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:47.820 that it cannot even be questioned without catastrophic consequences. 215 00:25:47.820 --> 00:25:52.140 Attorney General John Ascroft told the Senate a couple of months ago that those who scare 216 00:25:52.140 --> 00:26:01.380 peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty give ammo to America's enemies. 217 00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:07.540 One wonders if the Bush administration of freedom extends to anything beyond a right 218 00:26:07.540 --> 00:26:14.060 to buy an SUV, because obviously, according to Ascroft, free speech is no longer part 219 00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:15.060 of freedom. 220 00:26:15.060 --> 00:26:19.540 And it makes me wonder if Ashcroft got his ideas from Lenin, who said that freedom was 221 00:26:19.540 --> 00:26:27.860 so precious it has to be rationed. 222 00:26:27.860 --> 00:26:32.080 For six months the Bush administration has been pushing things like the USA Patriot Act 223 00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:35.280 and other anti-terrorism measures. 224 00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:40.100 These are going to be Pandora's boxes from which scandal after scandal arise in the coming 225 00:26:40.100 --> 00:26:41.820 years. 226 00:26:41.820 --> 00:26:50.820 The Congress and Congress have given the American people laws and policies that make sense only if no one ever has a good reason to fear their own government. 227 00:26:50.820 --> 00:26:54.820 Unfortunately, terrorists are not the only bad guys in this world. 228 00:27:11.820 --> 00:27:23.820 The President has said that we will use force and bring to justice any state or leader of a state in which terrorists are harbored and trained. 229 00:27:23.820 --> 00:27:38.820 As we all know, the men who perpetrated the 9-11 atrocities were trained in Florida, where the President's brother Jeb is governor, and operated out of New Jersey, where his current EPA head, Christie Todd Whitman, was at the time. 230 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:46.820 So can we expect to see Jeb and Chrissy Todd Whitman in the gallows next to one another at some time, or a possible invasion of New Jersey and Florida? 231 00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:38.820 The U.S. and the Ashcroft and some other Bush officials have tried to point fingers at Germany, but that's absurd because it was not a plot aimed at Germany, and my impression is there has been some cooperation between the governments, but there were so many incredible failings by the CIA, the FBI, the FAA, the INS, I mean, the whole alphabet agency is there, and it is amazing that the government now has more prestige than it did before 9-11. I mean, government has its biggest group in history, 232 00:28:38.820 --> 00:29:02.820 Could you explain what the Magic Lantern is and its impact on individual freedom? 233 00:29:08.820 --> 00:29:13.820 which the FBI could use to target, send out to targeted computers, targeted users. 234 00:29:13.820 --> 00:29:20.820 There was some controversy with some of the, I believe it was Norton, Norton anti-virus in McAfee. 235 00:29:20.820 --> 00:29:29.820 I think that there were some early indications that the anti-virus producers would work with the government to avoid alerting people, 236 00:29:29.820 --> 00:29:37.820 but there was a huge firestorm over that and the Norton and McAfee quickly clarified that of course they would not do that. 237 00:29:37.820 --> 00:29:45.820 So, but basically what I know and that's what I've read from some wired news and things like that, so, but, I'm sorry, yes? 238 00:29:45.820 --> 00:29:46.820 What does it do, though? 239 00:29:46.820 --> 00:29:54.820 Well, it would be a type of computer virus that would act like other viruses. It would disable your hard drive, basically, and paralyze your computer. 240 00:29:54.820 --> 00:30:05.820 And there are some viruses which, once a person is hit, it transfers their own data to other places, forwards it on, which could be embarrassing, so. 241 00:30:05.820 --> 00:30:12.820 Do you know who wrote the Patriot Act in the land? I suspect it was written before that. 242 00:30:12.820 --> 00:30:25.820 Well, yeah, that's a very good question. It was kind of curious. It was only a few days, I think less than a week, that the Justice Department gave the Congress a 150 or 200 page bill, you know, abracadabra. 243 00:30:25.820 --> 00:30:55.820 Okay, the final bill. Okay, I'm not sure how long the Justice Department's initial bill was, but it was full of provisions that the Justice Department had tried to get Congress to enact over the last four or five years during the Clinton administration and now under Bush, and it was like all these things were sitting on the shelf and all of a sudden the Justice Department says, oh boy, there's a sale. 244 00:30:55.820 --> 00:31:00.820 Which is basically how Congress reacted. They said, okay, fine, good with us, you know. 245 00:31:00.820 --> 00:31:06.820 I mean, it was amazing how there were so few congressmen who took a stand. 246 00:31:06.820 --> 00:31:11.820 Well, so few GOP congressmen. Ron Paul was very good. 247 00:31:11.820 --> 00:31:15.820 Butch Otter from Idaho, who I'd never heard of, gave a very nice speech on this. 248 00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:22.820 And there were a handful of Democrats that were good, but they're the same folks who are usually bad on most issues. 249 00:31:22.820 --> 00:31:25.820 and Civil Liberties. The Democrats in the House tend to be better. 250 00:31:25.820 --> 00:31:30.820 And Russ Feingold, to his honor, was the only Senator who stood up and said no to the Patriot Act. 251 00:31:47.820 --> 00:31:51.820 Editorially, the news coverage in both papers was not good. 252 00:31:51.820 --> 00:31:57.420 was not good prior to the bills being enacted, but what happened is that after Bush signed 253 00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:00.740 the bills, I think both papers started to have a little more analysis of what was in 254 00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:06.020 them, and they said, gee, this sounds bad. But for some reason, it really wasn't there 255 00:32:06.020 --> 00:32:11.980 in force before the bills were signed. There were some good editorial columns. I think 256 00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:16.460 the New York Times is probably stronger. New York Times tends to be one of the best papers 257 00:32:16.460 --> 00:32:21.580 on civil liberties in the country, much better than the Washington Post. 258 00:32:21.580 --> 00:32:27.300 And conservative papers like the Washington Times were just, you know, totally pro-Bush, 259 00:32:27.300 --> 00:32:30.300 so you know, totally gone. 260 00:32:30.300 --> 00:32:58.300 Having been wand down at the airport and had all my pockets empty by after being pulled out of line, after a six-year-old woman had been pulled out of line and given a shakedown, all the things you compare about highlighting civil liberties, those things you point out are even greater concern to me. 261 00:32:58.300 --> 00:33:13.300 But I take it that your concerns with the violation of civil liberties are apart from or conjoined with our response to terrorism in the 2800 B.C. along with the real and the live as we respond to or claim talent. 262 00:33:13.300 --> 00:33:26.300 So is it an opposition to pursuing Taliban or al-Qaeda in that kind of stance or is it separate from in terms of this being used as a cover for an overextension violation of civil liberties? 263 00:33:28.300 --> 00:33:33.300 Well, first of all, I'm in favor of wiping out this terrorist network that did the attack. 264 00:33:33.300 --> 00:33:44.300 I mean, it was a severe act of aggression, and my sense is the U.S. is entitled to add for that group and to put them out of business, lock, stock and barrel, by practically any means necessary. 265 00:33:44.300 --> 00:33:54.300 It's a different question if you're talking about the Taliban, because the Taliban did not attack New York, the Taliban did not attack the Pentagon. 266 00:33:54.300 --> 00:34:03.300 So, but if the Taliban was working to protect the al-Qaeda network, they've put themselves at least to a degree in the crossfire. 267 00:34:03.300 --> 00:34:15.300 But the thing I'm concerned about is that there's a sentiment on, there's a very false sense of security which is coming from all the BS in the airports. 268 00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:45.300 I mean, I was flying out of National Airport Thursday and they were very, you know, they made a very big point that no one can go to the bathroom in the first half hour of the flight after we leave or else the fighter jets are going to come up and the air marshals will pull out their guns and the plane will be forced to land at the nearest airport, which has happened with some planes coming out of the National because they have this idiot rule about, you know, if someone gets up in the first half hour they say, oh my God, hijacking. No, it might be an old lady going to the bathroom. 269 00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:50.620 matter. I mean, it's almost like they are trying to make it institutional to have hysterical 270 00:34:50.620 --> 00:34:56.660 responses. And, you know, the thing that really aggravates me in this airport security, well, 271 00:34:56.660 --> 00:35:02.540 you know, someone, well, yeah, there's, it's foolish how they're playing games in airport 272 00:35:02.540 --> 00:35:08.700 security. It's kind of PC games in one sense. But the biggest aggravation is they're hassling 273 00:35:08.700 --> 00:35:12.260 the heck out of everybody. And, you know, it's simple to government to assume that, 274 00:35:12.260 --> 00:35:15.740 Well, you know, people don't have anything to do with their lives. 275 00:35:15.740 --> 00:35:18.740 It's fine to make them go to the airport two hours ahead of a flight. 276 00:35:18.740 --> 00:35:22.620 You know, it's nice to be able to sit there and watch, listen to CNN news blaring. 277 00:35:22.620 --> 00:35:25.260 I mean, it's a complete waste of time. 278 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:27.820 It's just pissing away people's lives. 279 00:35:27.820 --> 00:35:30.820 And, but it doesn't cost the government anything. 280 00:35:30.820 --> 00:35:34.300 So the government doesn't hesitate to impose these heavy costs. 281 00:35:34.300 --> 00:35:36.820 It's the same with the East, the old East block. 282 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:41.700 It didn't cost the Soviets anything to have people stand in line for three hours for potatoes. 283 00:35:41.700 --> 00:35:51.700 And it's the same with, you know, all this time wasted for the airports, but the transportation sector is very adamant that he does not want pilots to have guns. 284 00:35:51.700 --> 00:35:57.700 And guns by the pilots would be a much better, would be a very, it would not be a panacea. 285 00:35:57.700 --> 00:36:04.700 And it's possible some pilots might misuse them, but it'd be a hell of a lot more effective than these gumbos at the airport. 286 00:36:04.700 --> 00:36:29.700 Report, just kind of like you, okay, did somebody give you a bomb? No. Okay. I mean, this, you know, this is what they're really asking. I mean, but, I mean, most of them are just kind of look like they, most of them look like they spent too many years in federal job training programs. That's the nicest way to put it. 287 00:36:29.700 --> 00:36:42.700 I know it's hard to step back in the heat of everything that's going on, but we know that government has grown the biggest in crises like World War I and World War II. 288 00:36:42.700 --> 00:36:50.700 Could you give us some idea of maybe how we're going to be seeing this 10 or 20 years from now, assuming that it gets no worse? 289 00:36:59.700 --> 00:37:08.700 Can you put it in context with the government growth of those other episodes perhaps? Is it as big as them? 290 00:37:08.700 --> 00:37:14.700 Well, I think Robert Higgs might be able to do that better than I could as far as he's got a better historical grasp on that. 291 00:37:14.700 --> 00:37:24.700 This is only six months in. It's hard to tell where it's going to go. If there's another attack, it doesn't matter if it's going to be because of a government screw-up. 292 00:37:24.700 --> 00:37:32.700 I'm sure there'll be a new wave of laws, a new wave of confiscations, a new wave of decimating rights and liberties. 293 00:37:32.700 --> 00:37:36.700 I don't know what's going to happen over the next six or eight months. 294 00:37:36.700 --> 00:37:41.700 I guess it depends on whether or not people start to wake up. 295 00:37:41.700 --> 00:37:48.700 Whether people start saying, well, it was the government that screwed up, and yet we've given the government all this new money and all this new power, 296 00:37:48.700 --> 00:37:53.700 and we have all these new people at the airport, but gee, the planes still got hijacked. 297 00:37:53.700 --> 00:38:01.700 I mean, you know, it's challenging to try to find a way to break through the mental stupor of the average American. 298 00:38:01.700 --> 00:38:12.700 Because the average American is just, you know, there's a lot of very, very intelligent people out there that have put their brains on automatic pilot on this entire issue. 299 00:38:12.700 --> 00:38:20.700 And if something can happen that will get maybe 10% of the population or 15% to start to use their natural intelligence on this 300 00:38:20.700 --> 00:38:26.580 on this, and start to just try to reason through some of this stuff, or to sit and compare 301 00:38:26.580 --> 00:38:32.900 some of Bush's statements, like his pledge to stand up and fight for liberty everywhere 302 00:38:32.900 --> 00:38:40.900 at the same time he's promising to stand up for all established governments. I mean, 303 00:38:40.900 --> 00:38:45.900 I guess I haven't given up hope that common sense could break out yet, so that's going 304 00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:47.900 I'm going to determine it, I think. 305 00:39:15.900 --> 00:39:32.900 Do you comment, I think, well, come on this is, Warren Brooks, the late Warren Brooks, once wrote in a quill that it seems that the role of the press is not to protect the status quo, as they said, but to state its quo. 306 00:39:32.900 --> 00:39:33.900 Sure, sure. 307 00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:35.900 And I want you to comment on that. 308 00:39:35.900 --> 00:39:45.900 Well, it's been surprising that most of the press corps has jumped on the big government bandwagon, but it's been that way since about 1933 in many ways. 309 00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:54.900 Some journalists have done some excellent work on this. The LA Times' William Orham out there has done some excellent work. 310 00:39:54.900 --> 00:40:00.900 Some of the people that write for the front page of the Wall Street Journal have done some good work. 311 00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:15.900 and there's been some good stuff in the New York Times even, so, but by and large, it's just the, it's almost as if the critical faculties have been suspended, but it's not isolated the war on terrorism, it's the same with the campaign finance reform. 312 00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:35.900 I mean, it's amazing that the most respected media outlets, print and broadcast both, have been so enthusiastic on the campaign finance former bill, which just overtly tries to destroy the First Amendment and make it a federal crime to criticize congressmen 60 days before their re-election. 313 00:40:35.900 --> 00:40:44.900 You would think that that fact might be mentioned a little more prominently in some of the news stories about the campaign finance bills, but it isn't. 314 00:40:44.900 --> 00:41:14.900 I mean, it's just, but my sense was that for some of the Washington Press Corps, I think that some of them get a lot of their status from Washington, per se, that they're, you know, it's almost like they're, like being an ambassador to another country, or to the Vatican, I mean, and so, and it's important that, it's important that for some of them, that Washington not be a total laughing stock, 315 00:41:14.900 --> 00:41:17.900 because that would undercut the prestige of their job. 316 00:41:17.900 --> 00:41:21.140 So, and, but for many of them, it's not, 317 00:41:21.140 --> 00:41:22.300 there's nothing devious about it. 318 00:41:22.300 --> 00:41:25.900 They're just pro, they're left-wing, liberal, 319 00:41:25.900 --> 00:41:27.740 and they like big government and they don't, 320 00:41:27.740 --> 00:41:30.900 and they don't ask many questions, so. 321 00:41:30.900 --> 00:41:34.900 But at the same time, you're always talking about civil liberties. Isn't it the state? 322 00:41:34.900 --> 00:41:36.900 I mean, there's a reason press... 323 00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:42.900 Normal reporters seem to believe that private organizations are depending on others against civil liberties, 324 00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:44.900 and government never violates civil liberties. 325 00:41:44.900 --> 00:41:48.900 America is a conservative administration. 326 00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:50.900 Well, yeah, I mean, certainly there's... 327 00:41:50.900 --> 00:41:56.900 I think that the Washington press would be more likely to criticize, as time goes on, the Bush administration for civil liberties violations. 328 00:41:56.900 --> 00:42:01.700 Violations. I mean, it was amazing that the Washington media did very little on the Clinton 329 00:42:01.700 --> 00:42:05.980 administration civil liberties records. Clinton had an incredibly bad civil liberties record, 330 00:42:05.980 --> 00:42:11.620 but he was just kind of the folks of the Washington Post, you know, tried to outdo Michael Lewinsky 331 00:42:11.620 --> 00:42:22.380 on the coverage. I mean, it was amazing. There was even a book by two Washington Post reporters, 332 00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:37.380 The other prominent report is something about the history of the Justice Department, a description of Maine Justice, Justice Department headquarters, and it was the subtitle was something about the men and women who helped save our liberties. 333 00:42:37.380 --> 00:42:42.380 And I'm saying, now wait a minute, okay, and this is after Waco. 334 00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:48.680 You know, I mean, but Waco never existed in Washington, D.C., except for a tiny, small number of folks. 335 00:42:48.680 --> 00:42:53.380 I mean, even the Washington think tanks almost never dealt with it until seven or eight years later. 336 00:42:53.380 --> 00:42:56.980 I mean, it was an issue that people just would not raise in polite society. 337 00:42:56.980 --> 00:43:03.680 And I think you're seeing the same mentality that, well, you know, it's too bad the government's going to be doing the wiretapping 338 00:43:03.680 --> 00:43:08.640 and the sneak and peek and all this stuff, but it's probably just going to be Arabs or Muslims or riff-raff 339 00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:28.640 I wondered if you could confirm the following allegation. On September 11th, it was perfectly legal to bring any knight on board that was no longer in a foreign place. 340 00:43:38.640 --> 00:43:46.640 The reason the terrorists succeeded on 9-11 was because the FAA preaches that people should not resist. 341 00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:54.640 It was FAA doctrine that the pilots should just kind of, you know, okay, yes sir, yes sir, okay, go and take over. 342 00:43:54.640 --> 00:44:03.640 And especially after what we found out in the Philippines in 95 and from other Arab terrorist groups 343 00:44:03.640 --> 00:44:07.640 talking about doing a French hijacking to plow into some place in Paris. 344 00:44:07.640 --> 00:44:15.640 The information was there that the terrorists were attempting to use planes as weapons. 345 00:44:15.640 --> 00:44:19.640 But the FAA never processed that, never mentioned it to the pilots, 346 00:44:19.640 --> 00:44:24.640 and it was still FAA policy that people were just kind of, people weren't supposed to submit. 347 00:44:24.640 --> 00:44:28.640 So, I mean, that's horrendous. 348 00:44:28.640 --> 00:44:47.640 Jim, I don't think the terrorists attacked the World Trade Center because they don't like our Republican-formal government or the fact that many of us drive SUVs. I think they attacked us because they hate us. And I'm just wondering, is there anything the United States government can do to be a little less hated in the world? 349 00:44:58.640 --> 00:45:05.640 No, seriously, I mean, this was the theme of his first speech to Congress, I believe it was September 20th. 350 00:45:05.640 --> 00:45:11.640 He was talking about that, and it's come up again, and it's something which even some libertarians have bought into. 351 00:45:11.640 --> 00:45:17.640 Okay, fine, thank you. Thank you for the clarification. 352 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:26.640 Yeah, and it's just, and I, you know, it's certainly possible that some terrorists are very upset about the First Amendment. 353 00:45:26.640 --> 00:45:33.040 I don't think that's what's driving them, you know. 354 00:45:33.040 --> 00:45:39.520 There was a statement I believe that Osama bin Laden made shortly, either before or shortly 355 00:45:39.520 --> 00:45:42.640 after 9-11, which he listed three things, which had upset him. 356 00:45:42.640 --> 00:45:48.800 He was very upset about the embargo on Iraq, which according to some Arabs, I guess, maybe 357 00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:54.120 perhaps the UN as well, has resulted in the death of over half a million Iraqi babies 358 00:45:54.120 --> 00:46:00.120 and Children. Because we have wrecked their economy in a number of ways with the bombing. 359 00:46:00.120 --> 00:46:04.600 We prevent them from being able to rebuild. And, you know, some Arabs get angry about 360 00:46:04.600 --> 00:46:11.240 that. I mean, based on those assumptions. I mean, a second thing which upsets them is 361 00:46:11.240 --> 00:46:17.960 the U.S. military bases on Muslim holy lands. I mean, we have a number of bases in Saudi 362 00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:23.720 Arabia and other areas that are very sacred to Muslims. I mean, some Americans might say, 363 00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:26.720 Well, but it shouldn't be sacred to Muslims. That's not the question. 364 00:46:26.720 --> 00:46:36.720 I mean, my understanding was that the first Bush administration had promised that those bases would only be temporary during the Gulf War. 365 00:46:36.720 --> 00:46:43.720 However, we've stayed there forever. We're trying to stay there forever, and that's generated a great deal of animosity. 366 00:46:43.720 --> 00:46:51.720 The third thing that they've said was that the U.S. siding with Israel and the Palestinians on the fight with the Palestinians. 367 00:46:51.720 --> 00:46:58.720 for Palestinians and that's obviously that's going to be something that's going to create, make a lot of Arabs very angry. 368 00:46:58.720 --> 00:47:09.400 Oh, yeah. I was just mentioning that there's a comment about Bush that there's a terrible 369 00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:16.640 standard of freedom. Is that so that obviously it gave you an apology of a reason? 370 00:47:16.640 --> 00:47:25.960 Very good. Good. Good line. Good line. Well, something which has been funny is that Bush 371 00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:29.960 Bruce has been using this line about, well, we have to do this or else the terrorists will win. 372 00:47:29.960 --> 00:47:34.960 And it's almost become like an unconscious mental reflex. 373 00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:37.960 He was talking a couple weeks ago about expanding the Peace Corps. 374 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:43.960 And he said, we have to do this kind of stuff to help send the American allies abroad or else the terrorists will win. 375 00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:50.960 And I'm thinking, okay, I don't recall Osama mentioning the Peace Corps. 376 00:47:50.960 --> 00:48:02.960 And I really don't think that the Peace Corps is going to be that much of a threat to anybody abroad except for, no, I'll try to be polite. I'll try to keep this in a high tone. It's a struggle. 377 00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:09.960 Going once, going twice. 378 00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:30.960 Well, it wasn't going to war. It was the first resolution by Congress to authorize force. It was quite expansive, but yeah, okay. 379 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:43.960 Paul voted in favor of it. And Paul put out a statement on that. It was a well-reasoned statement. I mean, it wasn't like he was double-crossing his principles or anything like that. 380 00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:51.960 I mean, he had a coherent explanation for supporting that resolution, which I thought made pretty good sense. 381 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:59.960 I mean, it was kind of, one would have liked to have a narrower resolution instead of making George Bush emperor or Caesar. 382 00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:06.960 I don't recall, I think, I'm sure that that would be on his website. 383 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:13.960 It's certainly been sought out, but Ron Paul has done some of the best criticism of the USA Patriot Act. 384 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:20.960 He's done wonderful work as far as the impact on financial privacy, so-called money laundering, bank secrecy. 385 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:28.960 Paul's staff has done some very good work, and he's done as much as anybody to hold the principal ground. 386 00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:31.960 Bob Barr has made some very good criticisms as well. 387 00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:36.960 Well, he's a very sharp former federal attorney, but Barr voted for the Patriot Act. 388 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:41.960 So that's kind of puzzling. 389 00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:48.960 The congressional resolutions that Paul voted for were limited to use the force against those that conducted the attacks. 390 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:55.960 Yeah, okay. That's a very good, yeah. That helps explain why Paul would support it. Thanks. 391 00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:17.960 I think we know a lot about one of the terrorists, Adam, and it seems that it's also going to black out some of the other, I'm just wondering what you think about that, why we don't know a lot, why the American press is shut out of looking at some of the other issues of the terrorists? 392 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:34.960 and Ashcroft even has totally reinterpreted the Freedom of Information Act to greatly narrow the amount of information on any government agency that's going to be made public. 393 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:39.960 And there's been a few little bleats in the media, but that's it. 394 00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:49.960 I don't know, but there are so many things that have not been made public, like I think the flight recorder and a lot of the information from the Flight 93, 395 00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:53.960 as well as some of the other information on some of the hijacking situations. 396 00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:59.640 I mean, and I have not noticed the federal government to ever withhold information that 397 00:50:59.640 --> 00:51:06.840 made itself look good. And so, I don't know what you're up to, but, and it's certainly 398 00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:10.160 possible that foreign policy considerations are the reason for withholding the information 399 00:51:10.160 --> 00:51:40.160 I agree with about 99% of everything you've said. I think you've done really well. You're on two things. I have a question about the embargo on Iraq. My understanding is that the situation they're at as far as children starting to go to work is very likely the fault of the regime, which is still using substantial sums of money to finance weapons. 400 00:51:40.160 --> 00:52:09.160 Well, that's a good question. It's the whole policy of the embargo was to try and induce a lot of pain on the entire country of Iraq to help encourage the people there to overthrow the government. 401 00:52:09.160 --> 00:52:25.160 Well, it's been, what, 12 years? 10, 11, 12 years? It hasn't worked. And certainly, I think that the government is, I'm sure it's using some of the revenue it gets with evil intent. Governments have a tendency to do that. 402 00:52:25.160 --> 00:52:34.160 But I also think that the humanitarian situation would be far better there if the UN embargo was not there. 403 00:52:34.160 --> 00:53:04.160 But part of what drives this, trying to understand the Arab and Muslim rage, is the perception out there that these embargoes have resulted in that many fatalities, and it was something that Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked about, I believe in 1996, and she had a quick comment about, well, if that's the price of getting Saddam out of power, that's how it is, or something like that. I mean, Madeleine Albright did not challenge that. 404 00:53:04.160 --> 00:53:22.160 I've seen some good writing on it. I'm not investigated myself. I would be happy to see Saddam Hussein. It's always a tragedy if a tyrant dies a natural death. 405 00:53:22.160 --> 00:53:52.160 And if some Iraqi citizen wants to take out Saddam Hussein, fine. But I think it would be a very bad idea for the U.S. to go in there and basically take responsibility of the situation, which is what we would do if we overthrew the government. It certainly worked out great in Haiti, Somalia, Bosnia and Kosovo. Why not some more? 406 00:53:52.160 --> 00:54:22.160 The ACLU has done some great work. The ACLU was one of the best sources of information on this. They were very courageous. They had more courage than almost anybody else in Washington on the Patriot Act, except for some of the, well no, they were way out there in front on the Patriot Act, and they've been a very good source of information. The President, Nadine Strousen, gave us some very good speeches. 407 00:54:22.160 --> 00:54:26.440 Mises, some of their policy folks have testified before Congress and really taken a hard line, 408 00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:28.920 so they've really upheld the flag. 409 00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:32.880 Amnesty, I believe, and Human Rights Watch have done a little bit of stuff that's good. 410 00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:37.800 They certainly haven't, they certainly haven't kowtowed, and it's possible that they've also 411 00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.800 done a lot of good stuff, but I'm just not aware of it, so. 412 00:54:42.800 --> 00:55:05.800 How can you be useful? Is he respected and what's your opinion? 413 00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:40.800 I think he's made some, I would agree with some of his criticisms, I'm not sure how, I would hesitate to, okay, fine, fine, there's, well, okay, there are questions about his affiliations with the Communist Party, from Dr. Hamaway here. 414 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:52.800 I mean, you know, he's someone who's been very good on some issues, but I guess I, there's some folks even, well, it's not something which I've looked into. 415 00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:56.800 I mean, I think other people here could comment more thoughtfully on that. 416 00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:05.800 So, Mr. Chomsky is one of the smaller churches that have people who think he's had a good 417 00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:09.800 time in the Senate, and he's working with the opposition, and he's certainly working 418 00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:12.800 with the M.K.A. and the M.K.A. for the legislation that has been passed. 419 00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:17.800 He's one of the economic people who think he's had a good time in the Senate, and he's 420 00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:19.800 a good representative of the M.K.A. 421 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:25.800 He is condemned by the establishment left. 422 00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:53.800 But he is someone who does get air time. Maybe so. I haven't tracked him over the decades. 423 00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:57.800 This is a different universe, indeed. 424 00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:05.800 Mr. Bowman, I know that you take a slightly different view about foreign policy than I do in general, but we have been attacked. 425 00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:16.800 And what would be your suggestions on how not to infringe upon American civil liberties, yet go about seeing that these bad guys get what they deserve? 426 00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:29.800 Well, the first thing I would have done is, you know, you know, Bush likes to ask him, says he asks himself sometimes, what would Jesus do, you know? 427 00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:38.800 And it would have been interesting as far as asking after September 11th, what would Stalin do? 428 00:57:38.800 --> 00:58:08.800 And it would have been interesting to see the head of the FAA, the Transportation Department, a lot of these other federal agencies that screwed up massively and have responsibility for, well, that screwed up so badly and made it easier for terrorists to succeed in killing thousands of Americans, those people should have been held responsible, those people should have been held very responsible. 429 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:17.800 And that's one thing I would have done. I mean, a major part of the trouble is that the government is doing all these different things at this point. 430 00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:24.800 We've got over 2 million people in prison. We've made so many activities criminal. 431 00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:36.800 The thing I would suggest is to get rid of most of the criminal statute book, to concentrate on things that are actually violent crimes, violent threats, and focus law enforcement resources. 432 00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:45.800 The federal government is already far too big, part of the reason that it was so incompetent before 9-11 was that it was trying to track so many different things. 433 00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:51.800 There was a wonderful statement by the former head of the INS, Dora Meisner, I believe, Doris Meisner, I think that's how it's pronounced. 434 00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:57.800 She was asked about some of these names being on watch lists, an INS watch list. 435 00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:02.800 And she said, but we've got millions of names on those lists. 436 00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:15.800 Well, that's a problem. That's a problem, you know. Okay, you know, there's a very small number of people, well, a very small number of people who are known to be involved with these extreme, hardcore terrorist groups. 437 00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:27.800 And if you kind of mix their names in with 500,000 other people who might have underpaid their taxes in Belgium, you know, well, that's a problem. That's a real loss of priorities. 438 00:59:27.800 --> 00:59:42.800 The government's got to get its priorities right, and the government was created to protect rights, including people's personal safety, right to property, things like that. 439 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:48.800 But the government has become far more concerned with controlling people than with protecting them. 440 00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:56.800 So I would just say that they need to completely change the focus of what the government does. 441 00:59:56.800 --> 01:00:10.800 Two points. First, the authoritarianism abroad doesn't recognize American power in the anti-constitutional policy, and the anti-constitutional policy still mitigates the authoritarianism abroad. 442 01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:23.800 Point two, of course America should set up a religious party, in general, that would subsidize the Israel, as we do sure to tell you, from Baruch here in Egypt. 443 01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:29.800 But I'm not at all convinced that cutting off a subsidy to Israel would somehow pacify the Arab world. 444 01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:37.800 Bear in mind, once you cut off aid, American Zionists and other individuals with the freedom to subsidize Israel on their own. 445 01:00:37.800 --> 01:01:07.800 Right. Well, on the second one, that's not what I was saying. Well, I was certainly not implying that ending U.S. foreign aid to Egypt, Israel, and the Palestinian 446 01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:10.800 Policy and Authority is going to create peace in the Middle East. 447 01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:13.800 I mean, that is something that the people there have to do. 448 01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:15.800 And it's a tragic situation. 449 01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:19.800 There's lots of good people on both sides of that conflict. 450 01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:23.800 Unfortunately, there's also a lot of, you know, hardliners, I guess, 451 01:01:23.800 --> 01:01:26.800 who are driving policy on both sides to a certain degree. 452 01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:30.800 But I think it's a fantasy to think that the U.S. government can somehow 453 01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:34.800 crack the whip and make both sides all of a sudden love peace. 454 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:45.800 I mean, it's hard for me to think of anything the U.S. government has even come close to achieving in the Middle East since, was it 1978 when Sadat and Begin were Camp David? 455 01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:57.800 I mean, and basically, that's something that probably wouldn't have happened even without Camp David, because the leader of Egypt wanted peace, and the Israeli leader also was willing to work for peace. 456 01:01:57.800 --> 01:02:03.800 And no amount of American money or military goods can substitute for that. So, anyhow. 457 01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:12.800 In your view, how should the U.S. react to the process of weapons of mass destruction being developed by gangster regimes like the United States? 458 01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:23.800 Well, certainly a certain amount of, it certainly should be gathering information in various ways, paying attention to it. 459 01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:33.800 It seems that the Bush administration thinks that only U.S. allies should be allowed to have nuclear bombs. 460 01:02:33.800 --> 01:02:41.800 That's the only sense which I can make of their moral doctrine, which they state with such fervor. 461 01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:48.800 But certainly, I think there's a lot of things the U.S. government could do to maybe keep an eye on what's happening. 462 01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:55.800 and what's happening, but according to Scott Ritter, the former UN inspecting, one of the top inspectors there for the UN, 463 01:02:55.800 --> 01:03:03.800 I mean, there wasn't that much evidence of the Iraqis trying to develop weapons of mass destruction even before the US, 464 01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:09.800 before the UN guys were kicked out, so, I mean, it's an evil government. 465 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:13.800 There are a lot of evil governments in the world, and I'd certainly keep an eye on them, 466 01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:21.800 I think the chance of the Iraqis being able to threaten the U.S. with a nuclear bomb are very, very low. 467 01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:24.800 This is nothing. 468 01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:28.800 No, no, I'm saying keep a close eye on them. 469 01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:35.800 Excuse me, you keep a close eye and you see they're doing it. What are you doing? 470 01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:37.800 Could you solve these problems right here? 471 01:03:37.800 --> 01:04:07.800 Right here. Yeah, right. Right. Well, I'm sorry I forgot to bring my magic wand. Well, I mean, that's something which would, that's a question that would come up if there was strong evidence, but I mean, it's hard to hypothetical here, but I also think that even if the Iraqis had one or two or three such bombs, 472 01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:12.400 that they would not have a wish for natural suicide and I think both that the US and the 473 01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:16.800 I think if the Saddam Hussein would know if he tried to attack the US with a 474 01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:21.760 nuclear bomb he get blown to pieces by the US and if he tried to attack Israel 475 01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:26.240 with a nuclear bomb the Israelis would blow up the pieces so I really don't see 476 01:04:26.240 --> 01:04:30.160 you know we're gonna assume that there's a suicide wish there then that's it's 477 01:04:30.160 --> 01:04:33.160 I think it's hard to make a rational response to that.