WEBVTT NOTE Strategy: Secession, Privatization, and the Prospects of Liberty 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:14.000 Okay, it is time for me to begin my last and final lecture, except for the sixth that I have to give next week. 2 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:37.000 The upshot of all my lectures is that the institution of the state represents somehow an error and a deviation from the normal and natural cause of civilization. 3 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:45.000 And all errors are costly and have to be paid for. 4 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:51.000 This is most obvious with errors concerning laws of nature. 5 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:59.000 If a person errs regarding laws of nature, this person will not be able to reach his own goals. 6 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:09.200 However, because the failure of doing so must be borne by each individual, that prevails 7 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:17.840 in the area of the natural sciences, a universal desire to learn and to eliminate and correct 8 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:20.560 one's errors. 9 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:31.720 On the other hand, moral errors are costly also, but unlike in the case of natural sciences, 10 00:01:31.720 --> 00:01:40.560 the cost of moral errors must not, or at least not necessarily, be paid for by each and every 11 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:45.320 person that commits this error. 12 00:01:45.320 --> 00:01:54.600 For instance, takes the error that we have talked here about in detail, takes the error 13 00:01:54.600 --> 00:02:04.280 of believing that one agency, the state, has an only one agency, has the right to tax and 14 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:15.720 ultimate decision-making, that is that there must be different laws applying and unequal 15 00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:25.840 laws applying to the masters and serfs or the tax and the taxors, the legislators and 16 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:38.240 A society that believes in this error can of course exist and last, as we all know, but 17 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.080 this error must be paid for too. 18 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:48.200 But the interesting thing is not everyone holding this error must pay for it equally. 19 00:02:48.200 --> 00:03:01.200 Rather, some people will have to pay for the error, while others, namely the agents of the state, actually benefit from the same error. 20 00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:15.200 Because of this, in this case, it would be mistaken to assume that there exists, so to speak, a universal desire to learn and to correct one's error. 21 00:03:15.200 --> 00:03:39.200 Quite to the contrary, in this case, it will have to be assumed that some people, instead of learning and promoting the truth, have actually a constant motive to lie, that is to maintain and promote falsehoods, even if they themselves recognize them as such. 22 00:03:39.200 --> 00:03:52.200 Let me explain this in a little bit more detail and repeat some of the basic insights that I tried to convey during this week. 23 00:03:52.200 --> 00:04:02.200 Once you accept the principle of government, namely that there must be a judicial monopoly and the power to tax, 24 00:04:02.200 --> 00:04:22.200 Once you accept this principle incorrectly as a just principle, then any idea or any notion of restraining or limiting government power and safeguarding individual liberty and property becomes illusory. 25 00:04:22.200 --> 00:04:37.200 Rather, under monopolistic auspices, the price of justice and protection will continually rise, and the quality of justice and protection will continually fall. 26 00:04:37.200 --> 00:04:49.200 A tax-funded protection agency is a contradiction in term. It is an expropriating property protector. 27 00:04:49.200 --> 00:04:57.700 and such an institution will inevitably lead to more taxes and ever less protection. 28 00:04:57.700 --> 00:05:09.700 Even if, as some classical liberals demand, even if a government would limit its activities 29 00:05:09.700 --> 00:05:16.200 exclusively to the protection of pre-existing private property rights, 30 00:05:16.200 --> 00:05:32.200 Then immediately the further question would arise how much security to produce and how many resources to spend on this particular good of protection. 31 00:05:32.200 --> 00:05:44.200 And motivated like everyone else by self-interest and disliking like everybody else to work. 32 00:05:44.200 --> 00:05:55.200 But equipped with the power, the unique power to tax, a government agent's answer will invariably be the same. 33 00:05:55.200 --> 00:06:11.200 That is, to maximize expenditures on protection, and as you can imagine, almost the entire wealth of a nation can in principle be expended on protection. 34 00:06:11.200 --> 00:06:38.200 The more money you can spend, the less you must work for this money, the better off you are. 35 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:50.680 Now, in addition, a judicial monopoly will inevitably lead to a steady deterioration in the quality of justice and protection. 36 00:06:50.680 --> 00:07:01.480 If no one can appeal to justice except to government, justice will invariably be perverted in favor of government. 37 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:06.120 Constitutions and Supreme Courts notwithstanding. 38 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:08.640 After all, constitutions and supreme courts 39 00:07:08.640 --> 00:07:13.760 are state constitutions and state agencies. 40 00:07:13.760 --> 00:07:19.480 And whatever limitations to state activities 41 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:24.700 these institutions might find or contain 42 00:07:24.700 --> 00:07:29.040 is invariably decided by agents of the very institution that 43 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.280 is under consideration. 44 00:07:32.280 --> 00:07:36.200 It is unpredictable that the definition of property 45 00:07:36.200 --> 00:07:41.340 and the definition of protection will continually be altered. 46 00:07:41.340 --> 00:07:44.800 And the range of jurisdiction expanded 47 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:48.040 to the government's advantage until ultimately 48 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:52.960 the notion of universal and immutable human rights, 49 00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:57.040 and in particular, property rights, will disappear 50 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:08.040 and will be replaced by that of law as government-made legislation and rights as government-given grants to people. 51 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:18.040 Now, the results are all before our own eyes, and everyone can see them. 52 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:35.040 The tax load that is imposed on property owners and producers has continually increased, making even the economic burden of slaves and serfs seem moderate in comparison. 53 00:08:35.040 --> 00:08:44.040 Government debt and hence future tax obligations has risen to breathtaking heights. 54 00:08:44.040 --> 00:08:55.040 Every detail of private life, of property, of trade and of contract is regulated by ever higher mountains of paper laws. 55 00:08:55.040 --> 00:09:05.040 Yet the only task that the government was ever supposed to assume, that of protecting life and property, it does not perform too well. 56 00:09:05.040 --> 00:09:13.040 To the contrary, the higher the expenditures on social, public and national security have risen, 57 00:09:13.040 --> 00:09:26.040 The more our private property rights have been eroded, the more our property has been expropriated, confiscated, destroyed and depreciated. 58 00:09:26.040 --> 00:09:39.040 The more paper laws have been produced, the more legal uncertainty and moral hazard has been created, and lawlessness has displaced law and order. 59 00:09:39.040 --> 00:09:53.040 Instead of protecting us from domestic crime and from foreign aggression, our government, which is equipped with enormous stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, 60 00:09:53.040 --> 00:10:04.040 aggresses against ever new Hitler's and suspected Hitlerite sympathizers anywhere and everywhere outside of its own territory. 61 00:10:04.040 --> 00:10:18.040 In short, while we have become ever more helpless, impoverished, threatened and insecure, our state rulers have become increasingly more corrupt, arrogant and dangerously armed. 62 00:10:18.040 --> 00:10:22.040 Now what can we do about all this? 63 00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:30.040 Let me begin by pointing out first something that I have mentioned already before. 64 00:10:30.040 --> 00:10:46.040 We have to recognize that states, as powerful and as invincible as they might seem, ultimately all their existence to ideas, 65 00:10:46.040 --> 00:10:57.040 and since ideas can in principle change instantaneously, states can be brought down and crumble practically overnight too. 66 00:10:57.040 --> 00:11:08.040 The representatives of the state are always and everywhere only just a small minority of the population over which they rule. 67 00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:14.040 The reason for this, as I explained, is as simple as it is fundamental. 68 00:11:14.040 --> 00:11:22.040 One hundred parasites can live comfortable lives if they suck out the lifeblood of thousands of productive hosts, 69 00:11:22.040 --> 00:11:29.540 But thousands of parasites cannot live comfortably off of a host population of just a few hundred. 70 00:11:29.540 --> 00:11:42.540 Yet if government agents are merely a small minority of the population, how can they enforce their will on this population and get away with it? 71 00:11:42.540 --> 00:11:57.540 The answer given by Rothbard and by de la Boitie and Eugen and Mises before him is only by virtue of the voluntary cooperation of the majority of the subject population with the state. 72 00:11:57.540 --> 00:12:01.540 Yet how can the state secure such cooperation? 73 00:12:01.540 --> 00:12:14.540 And the answer is only because and insofar as the majority of the population believes in the legitimacy of state rule, in the necessity of the institution of the state. 74 00:12:14.540 --> 00:12:21.540 This is not to say that the majority of the population must agree with every single state measure. 75 00:12:21.540 --> 00:12:29.540 In fact, it may well believe that many state policies are mistakes or even despicable. 76 00:12:29.540 --> 00:12:37.540 However, the majority of the population must believe in the justice of the institution of the state as such. 77 00:12:37.540 --> 00:12:45.540 And hence, that even if a particular government goes wrong or makes particular mistakes, 78 00:12:45.540 --> 00:12:57.540 that these mistakes are merely accidents which must be accepted and tolerated in view of some greater good provided by the institution of government. 79 00:12:57.540 --> 00:13:02.540 That is, people believe in the accident theory of government error, 80 00:13:02.540 --> 00:13:08.540 instead of seeing that there is a systematic reason behind all of this. 81 00:13:08.540 --> 00:13:15.540 Yet how can the majority of the population be brought to believe this accident theory? 82 00:13:15.540 --> 00:13:20.540 And the answer is, with the help of intellectuals. 83 00:13:20.540 --> 00:13:27.540 In the old days, that meant trying to mold an alliance between the state and the church. 84 00:13:27.540 --> 00:13:35.540 And in modern times, and far more effectively, this means through the nationalization or the socialization of education, 85 00:13:35.540 --> 00:13:41.540 through state-run and state-subsidized schools and universities. 86 00:13:41.540 --> 00:13:48.540 The market demand for intellectual services, in particular in the area of the humanities 87 00:13:48.540 --> 00:13:56.240 and the Social Sciences is not exactly high and also not exactly stable and secure. 88 00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:03.040 Intellectuals would be at the mercy of the values and choices of the masses, 89 00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:09.540 and the masses are generally uninterested in intellectual and philosophical concerns. 90 00:14:09.540 --> 00:14:17.640 The state, on the other hand, as Rothbard has noted, accommodates their typically over-inflated egos 91 00:14:17.640 --> 00:14:24.840 and is willing to offer the intellectuals a warm, secure and permanent birth in its apparatus, 92 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:29.940 a secure income and a panoply of prestige. 93 00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:38.640 And indeed, the modern democratic state in particular has created a massive oversupply of intellectuals. 94 00:14:38.640 --> 00:14:45.140 Now, this accommodation does not guarantee correct status thinking, of course, 95 00:14:45.140 --> 00:14:53.100 and as well and as generally overpaid as intellectuals are, intellectuals will continue to complain 96 00:14:53.100 --> 00:14:59.460 how little their also important work is appreciated by the powers that be. 97 00:14:59.460 --> 00:15:08.060 But it certainly helps in reaching the correct status conclusions if one realizes that without 98 00:15:08.060 --> 00:15:14.180 the state, that is without the institution of taxation and legislation, one might be 99 00:15:14.180 --> 00:15:22.180 may be out of work entirely and may have to try one's hand at the mechanics of gas pump operation 100 00:15:22.180 --> 00:15:33.180 instead of concerning oneself with such pressing problems as alienation and equity and exploitation 101 00:15:33.180 --> 00:15:43.180 and the deconstruction of gender and sex roles or the culture of the eskimos, the Hopis and the Zulus. 102 00:15:43.180 --> 00:16:02.180 And even if one feels underappreciated by this or that incumbent government, intellectuals still realize that help can only come from another government and certainly not from an intellectual assault on the legitimacy of the very institution of government as such. 103 00:16:02.180 --> 00:16:26.180 Thus, it is hardly surprising that, as a matter of empirical fact, the overwhelming majority of contemporary intellectuals are far-out lefties and that even most conservative or free-market intellectuals such as, for instance, Milton Friedman or Friedrich Hayek, for instance, are fundamentally and philosophically also statists. 104 00:16:26.180 --> 00:16:37.680 Now from this insight into the importance of ideas and the role of intellectuals as bodyguards of the state and of statism, 105 00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:47.880 it follows that the most decisive role in the process of liberation, that is the restoration of justice and morality, 106 00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:54.880 must fall on the shoulders of what one might call anti-intellectual intellectuals. 107 00:16:54.880 --> 00:17:17.880 Yet, how can such anti-intellectual intellectuals possibly succeed in delegitimating the state in public opinion, especially if the overwhelming majority of their colleagues are statists and will do everything in their power to isolate and discredit them as extremists and crackpots? 108 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:27.880 The first thing is this, because one must reckon with the vicious opposition from one's colleagues, 109 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:34.880 and in order to withstand this criticism and to shrug it off, 110 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:43.880 it is of utmost importance to ground one's own case not just in economics and in utilitarian arguments, 111 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:58.880 in ethics and moral arguments, because only moral convictions provide one with the courage and the strength needed in ideological battle. 112 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:08.880 Few people are inspired and willing to accept sacrifices if what they are opposed to is mere error and waste. 113 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:15.620 More inspiration and more courage can be drawn from knowing that one is engaged in fighting 114 00:18:15.620 --> 00:18:18.420 evil and lies. 115 00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:21.980 And I'll come to that in a few minutes again. 116 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:26.080 The second point I want to emphasize is this. 117 00:18:26.080 --> 00:18:33.420 It is equally important to recognize that one does not need to convert one's colleagues, 118 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:38.860 is that one does not need to persuade mainstream intellectuals. 119 00:18:38.860 --> 00:18:47.540 As Thomas Kuhn has shown in particular, this converting one's colleagues is a rare enough 120 00:18:47.540 --> 00:18:52.220 event even in the natural sciences. 121 00:18:52.220 --> 00:18:58.820 In the social sciences, conversions among established intellectuals from previously 122 00:18:58.820 --> 00:19:18.820 are almost unheard of. Instead, one should concentrate one's efforts on the not yet intellectually committed young, whose idealism makes them particularly receptive to moral arguments and to moral rigorism. 123 00:19:18.820 --> 00:19:45.020 And likewise, one should circumvent, as far as is possible, pure academic institution and reach out to the general public, which has some generally healthy anti-intellectual prejudices into which one can easily tap. 124 00:19:45.020 --> 00:19:53.520 The third point is, and this makes me return to the importance of a moral attack on the state, 125 00:19:53.520 --> 00:20:01.960 it is essential to recognize that there can be no compromise on the level of theory. 126 00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:08.040 To be sure, one should not refuse to cooperate with people whose views are ultimately mistaken 127 00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:15.200 and Confused, provided that their objectives can be classified clearly and unambiguously 128 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:21.640 as a step in the right direction of a destatization of society. 129 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:28.020 For instance, one would not want to refuse cooperation with people who seek to introduce 130 00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:35.320 a flat income tax of 10 percent, although we would not want to cooperate with those 131 00:20:35.320 --> 00:20:43.320 who would want to combine this measure with an increased sales tax in order to achieve revenue neutrality, for instance. 132 00:20:43.320 --> 00:20:54.320 However, under no circumstances should such cooperation lead to or be achieved by compromising one's principles. 133 00:20:54.320 --> 00:20:58.320 Either taxation is just or it isn't. 134 00:20:58.320 --> 00:21:06.320 And once it is admitted that it is just, how is one then to oppose any increase in it? 135 00:21:06.320 --> 00:21:11.320 And the answer is, of course, then one has no argument left over. 136 00:21:11.320 --> 00:21:17.320 Put differently, compromise on the level of theory, as we find it, for instance, 137 00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:25.320 among moderate free marketeers such as Hayek or Friedman or even among some so-called minarchists, 138 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:33.320 is not only philosophically flawed, but it is also practically ineffective and even counterproductive. 139 00:21:33.320 --> 00:21:44.320 Their ideas can be, and in fact are, easily co-opted and incorporated by the state rulers and by the statist ideology. 140 00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:51.320 In fact, how often do we hear nowadays from statists in defense of a statist agenda, 141 00:21:51.320 --> 00:22:03.320 There are cries such as, even Hayek or Friedman says such and such, or not even Hayek or Friedman would propose anything like this. 142 00:22:03.320 --> 00:22:14.320 Now personally, Friedman and Hayek might not be happy about this, but there is no denying that their work lends itself to this very purpose. 143 00:22:14.320 --> 00:22:23.320 and hence that they willy-nilly actually contributed to the continued and unabating power of the state. 144 00:22:23.320 --> 00:22:37.320 In other words, theoretical compromise or gradualism will only lead to the perpetuation of the falsehood, evils and lies of statism 145 00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:51.320 And only theoretical purism, radicalism and intransigence can and will lead first to gradual practical reform and improvement and possibly also to final victory. 146 00:22:51.320 --> 00:23:06.320 Accordingly, as an anti-intellectual intellectual in the Rothbardian sense, one can never be satisfied with criticizing various government follies, 147 00:23:06.320 --> 00:23:33.320 Although one might have to begin with criticizing such follies, but one must always proceed from there onto a fundamental attack on the institution of the state as such as a moral outrage and on its representatives as moral as well as economic frauds, liars and impostors, or as emperors without clothes. 148 00:23:33.320 --> 00:23:47.320 In particular, one must never hesitate to strike at the very heart of the legitimacy of the state, its alleged indispensable role as producer of private protection and security. 149 00:23:48.320 --> 00:23:52.320 I have already shown how ridiculous this claim is on theoretical grounds. 150 00:23:53.320 --> 00:24:02.320 How can an agency that may expropriate private property possibly claim to be a protector of private property? 151 00:24:03.320 --> 00:24:11.960 But hardly less important is it to attack the legitimacy of the state on empirical grounds. 152 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:19.640 That is to point out and hammer away on the subject that after all states which are supposed 153 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:29.600 to protect us are the very institution responsible for some estimated 170 million deaths in peacetime 154 00:24:29.600 --> 00:24:32.520 in the 20th century alone. 155 00:24:32.520 --> 00:24:39.360 is more than the victims probably of private crime in all of human history, and this number 156 00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:45.640 of victims of private crimes from which government did not protect us would have been even much 157 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:51.400 lower if governments everywhere and at all times had not undertaken constant efforts 158 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:57.040 of disarming its own citizens so that the governments in turn would become ever more 159 00:24:57.040 --> 00:25:00.600 effective killing machines. 160 00:25:00.600 --> 00:25:07.560 Instead of treating politicians with respect then, one's criticism of them should be significantly 161 00:25:07.560 --> 00:25:10.480 stepped up. 162 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:19.800 Almost to a man, there might be a few exceptions, almost to a man politicians are not only thieves 163 00:25:19.800 --> 00:25:26.520 but in fact mass murderers or at least assistants, assistants of mass murderers. 164 00:25:26.520 --> 00:25:33.200 And how do they dare to demand our respect and loyalty? 165 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:42.200 But will a sharp and distinct ideological radicalization bring about the results that we want to achieve? 166 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.000 In this I have very little doubt. 167 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:52.200 Indeed, only radical and in fact radically simple ideas can possibly stir the emotions 168 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:59.320 of the dull and indolent masses and delegitimized government in their eyes. 169 00:25:59.320 --> 00:26:08.600 Let me quote Hayek to this effect, and from this you realize that even a guy who is fundamentally 170 00:26:08.600 --> 00:26:19.520 muddled and mistaken can of course have very important insights and that we can learn very 171 00:26:19.520 --> 00:26:37.520 We must make the building of a free society once more an intellectual adventure, a deed of courage. 172 00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:44.520 What we lack is a liberal utopia, a program which seems neither a mere defense of things as they are, 173 00:26:44.520 --> 00:26:54.320 nor a diluted kind of socialism, but a truly liberal radicalism which does not spare the susceptibilities of the mighty, 174 00:26:54.320 --> 00:27:02.720 which is not too severely practical and which does not confine itself to what appears today as politically possible. 175 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:09.020 We need intellectual leaders who are prepared to resist the blandishments of power and influence 176 00:27:09.020 --> 00:27:17.020 and who are willing to work for an ideal, however small may be the prospects of its early realization. 177 00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:24.020 They must be men who are willing to stick to principles and to fight for their full realization, however remote. 178 00:27:24.020 --> 00:27:32.020 Free trade and freedom of opportunities are ideas which still may arouse the imaginations of large numbers, 179 00:27:32.020 --> 00:27:44.020 But a mere reasonable freedom of trade, or a mere relaxation of controls, is neither intellectually respectable nor likely to inspire any enthusiasm. 180 00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:52.020 Unless we can make the philosophical foundations of a free society once more a living intellectual issue, 181 00:27:52.020 --> 00:28:04.020 and its implementation a task which challenges the ingenuity and imagination of our liveliest minds, the prospects of freedom are indeed dark. 182 00:28:04.020 --> 00:28:13.020 But if we can regain that belief in the power of ideas, which was a mark of liberalism at its best, the battle is not lost. 183 00:28:13.020 --> 00:28:22.020 Now Hayek, of course, did not heed his own advice and provide us with a consistent and inspiring theory. 184 00:28:22.020 --> 00:28:32.020 His utopia, as developed, for instance, in his Constitution of Liberty, is instead the uninspiring vision of the Swedish welfare state. 185 00:28:32.020 --> 00:28:43.020 But it is Rothbard, above all, who has done what Hayek recognized as necessary for the renewal of classical liberalism. 186 00:28:43.020 --> 00:28:52.020 That is, he has given us an inspiring utopia, something that is based on morals, 187 00:28:52.020 --> 00:29:05.020 and is capable of invigorating especially the young and intellectually uncommitted. 188 00:29:05.020 --> 00:29:17.020 Now let me end by also trying to offer some sort of inspiring utopia for intermediate goals, 189 00:29:17.020 --> 00:29:25.020 goals before we reach a fully destatized society. 190 00:29:25.020 --> 00:29:35.020 You realize that if we follow the logic of the state to its ultimate conclusion, 191 00:29:35.020 --> 00:29:41.020 then what we must demand is a world state. 192 00:29:41.020 --> 00:30:02.020 Because as long as there is no world state, then according to the statist ideology itself, there will be perpetual war among states because they are vis-a-vis each other in a state of anarchy, and the only ultimate solution would be that of a world state. 193 00:30:02.020 --> 00:30:11.020 This is precisely the vision that our leaders, so to speak, try to propagate. 194 00:30:11.020 --> 00:30:18.020 Of course, a world state under control of the United States, to be more precise. 195 00:30:18.020 --> 00:30:22.020 But in any case, it requires a world state. 196 00:30:22.020 --> 00:30:38.020 Instead, the intermediate utopia that I would suggest takes its cues from what we have learned from the Middle Ages 197 00:30:38.020 --> 00:30:54.020 And from the peculiar organization of Europe, which was responsible for the unique success of the Western world, 198 00:30:54.020 --> 00:31:06.020 that is the quasi-anarchistic structure, the highly decentralized structure of Europe. 199 00:31:06.020 --> 00:31:19.020 What we can propose as an intermediate goal, which I think is more inspiring than the world state, 200 00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:33.020 is the view of a world composed of tens of thousands of monarchs and lichtensteins and Swiss cantons 201 00:31:33.020 --> 00:31:49.020 and Singapore and Hong Kong and San Marinos and whatever small entities nowadays still exist. 202 00:31:49.020 --> 00:31:58.020 Recall, if we have a large number of small entities, political entities, 203 00:31:58.020 --> 00:32:09.020 Each of these entities will have to be relatively moderate and nice to its population, otherwise people will simply run away from it. 204 00:32:09.020 --> 00:32:23.020 Secondly, each one of these small units will have to engage almost necessarily in an open free trade policy. 205 00:32:23.020 --> 00:32:47.020 The United States as a large country can engage in protectionist measures because it has a large internal market and even if it would stop trading with the rest of the world, the United States population would experience a significant decline in standards of living, but people would not die. 206 00:32:47.020 --> 00:33:02.020 On the other hand, imagine Liechtenstein or Monaco or San Marino declaring no more free trade with the outside world or Hong Kong or places such as this. 207 00:33:02.020 --> 00:33:10.020 Then, of course, it would take a week or two and the entire population in these places would be wiped out. 208 00:33:10.020 --> 00:33:20.460 out. So small units must, in order to avoid starving to death or losing in particular 209 00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:32.660 their most productive individuals in no time, must engage in classical liberal policies. 210 00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:43.700 In addition, a large number of very small units would have to give up, of necessity, 211 00:33:43.700 --> 00:33:52.420 the institution of paper money, because there cannot be tens of thousands of different paper 212 00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:57.220 monies issued by tens of thousands of different political units. 213 00:33:57.220 --> 00:34:03.300 We would basically be back to a system of barter if we were to do this. 214 00:34:03.300 --> 00:34:12.780 The smaller the units are, the greater is the pressure in fact that we will return also 215 00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:22.740 to a commodity money standard which is entirely independent of government control. 216 00:34:22.740 --> 00:34:30.900 What I would recommend in particular for the United States and so forth is to realize that 217 00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:38.140 democracy will not abolish itself. 218 00:34:38.140 --> 00:34:44.820 The masses like to loot each other's, other people's property. 219 00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:50.140 They will not give up the right to continue doing this. 220 00:34:50.140 --> 00:35:02.140 However, there are still in the United States and in many other places, there are still small islands of reasonable people. 221 00:35:02.140 --> 00:35:15.140 And it is possible that on small local levels, so to speak, some people, some natural authorities can gain enough influence 222 00:35:15.140 --> 00:35:23.140 in order to induce them to secede from their central state. 223 00:35:23.140 --> 00:35:31.140 And if they do so, and if that accelerates, happens at many places simultaneously, 224 00:35:31.140 --> 00:35:38.140 it will be almost impossible for the central state to crush a movement such as this, 225 00:35:38.140 --> 00:35:41.140 because in order to crush a movement such as this, 226 00:35:41.140 --> 00:36:04.140 Again, public opinion has to be in favor of this and it would be difficult to persuade the public to attack, to kill, to destroy small places that have done nothing else but declare we are independent of the United States, 227 00:36:04.140 --> 00:36:18.140 We are independent of the central German state, and we are able to solve our own problem without the help of the central state. 228 00:36:18.140 --> 00:36:26.140 With this, I'm done. I thank you very much. I hope I enlightened and entertained you a little bit, and thanks again. 229 00:36:34.140 --> 00:37:04.060 Okay, we still have some time for questions. I answered all questions. I'm very happy 230 00:37:04.060 --> 00:37:27.060 If you were going to make the case for you as an individual to secede from whatever is out there, what would be your intellectual line of reasoning? 231 00:37:27.060 --> 00:37:36.060 That depends on the location. For instance, in Nevada, there is a big movement 232 00:37:36.060 --> 00:37:44.060 opposed to establishing this Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump. 233 00:37:44.060 --> 00:37:55.060 So there it might be this subject that you could play up and say, 234 00:37:55.060 --> 00:38:05.060 Look, the federal government forces us to accept all this nuclear waste and put it in the middle of our state. 235 00:38:05.060 --> 00:38:12.060 And we have exhausted all judicial possibilities to combat this sort of stuff. 236 00:38:12.060 --> 00:38:19.060 There's only one possibility left, and that is we succeed. 237 00:38:19.060 --> 00:38:23.060 Again, I'm not saying necessarily that that will succeed. 238 00:38:23.060 --> 00:38:36.060 I'm saying if there would be sufficiently prominent, charismatic type leaders, the success of something like this cannot be ruled out. 239 00:38:36.060 --> 00:38:46.060 And I think it would be very difficult for the United States to send in armies to demolish these people 240 00:38:46.060 --> 00:38:54.060 Because there will be lots of people in the United States who say, what have they done? 241 00:38:54.060 --> 00:39:03.060 It's a perfectly reasonable attitude not to want to have this sort of stuff and to impose it on them. Why? 242 00:39:03.060 --> 00:39:09.060 In other places, there might be other reasons of this nature. 243 00:39:09.060 --> 00:39:37.060 So I don't think you can answer this with one clear-cut approach that depends on what are the particular complaints and misgivings that exist at place A and place B and what subject is particularly suitable in order to arouse the masses to agree to such a move. 244 00:39:37.060 --> 00:39:48.060 One of the really interesting chapters in your book is about conservatism and how libertarians should be conservative is one of the things you talk about. 245 00:39:48.060 --> 00:39:57.060 That's really at odds with Rothbard and it's really at odds with, I think, a lot of young people in this country. 246 00:39:57.060 --> 00:40:03.060 This is probably exacerbated by how things have already proceeded with this state breakdown of the family. 247 00:40:03.060 --> 00:40:10.060 They don't have a hard time being inspired by the ideal of currying their parents' authority. 248 00:40:10.060 --> 00:40:13.060 I wanted to hear you talk about that a little bit. 249 00:40:27.060 --> 00:40:37.060 All of these pieces that appear in the book were initially given as speeches at various conferences, 250 00:40:37.060 --> 00:40:47.060 and Murray Rothbard heard almost all of these speeches before, and he always came to me and said, 251 00:40:47.060 --> 00:40:50.060 Great Hans! Great Hans! 252 00:40:50.060 --> 00:40:59.060 So I'm somewhat skeptical to say that he would disagree, would disagree with that. 253 00:40:59.060 --> 00:41:04.060 He might have formulated sometimes things a little bit different than I did. 254 00:41:09.060 --> 00:41:13.060 Right. Yeah, Murray had some sort of... 255 00:41:13.060 --> 00:41:18.660 But again, he made also certain strategic errors in his life. 256 00:41:18.660 --> 00:41:24.300 I think he regretted, for instance, the coalition that he formed with the left during the Vietnam 257 00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:34.340 era, and he tried to create, and in this attempt I was a major player myself, he tried to create 258 00:41:34.340 --> 00:41:47.620 at the end of his life a coalition with old-style conservatives and the point on which these 259 00:41:47.620 --> 00:41:55.020 old-style conservatives like Paul Gottfried for instance and us libertarians could always 260 00:41:55.020 --> 00:42:06.020 The only way to agree was that the disagreements that we had had to be solved at the lowest possible level. 261 00:42:06.020 --> 00:42:13.020 That is, should abortion be permitted or should it not be permitted? 262 00:42:13.020 --> 00:42:23.020 If that is decided on the level of the central government, you have, regardless of what the decision is, half of the population up in arms. 263 00:42:23.020 --> 00:42:43.020 However, if this would be made a local issue, then almost entirely do the differences that exist between those who think that is legitimate and those who think that is illegitimate disappear. 264 00:42:43.020 --> 00:42:48.020 There might then be many places where it would be impossible to do this. 265 00:42:48.020 --> 00:42:58.020 And there might be some places where you can do it, but maybe you have to, whatever, travel thousands of miles before you find a place like this. 266 00:42:58.020 --> 00:43:10.020 The same thing with education. Of course, the ultimate goal should be there should be no state involvement in education whatsoever. 267 00:43:10.020 --> 00:43:22.020 But even those who agree there should be some involvement of the state in education, of the conservatives, we could agree with them. 268 00:43:22.020 --> 00:43:27.020 That should be, of course, done on the smallest possible level. 269 00:43:27.020 --> 00:43:37.020 Not even in these big school districts as they exist right now, but even splitting up the existing school districts into even smaller units. 270 00:43:37.020 --> 00:43:47.020 and certainly it should not be a state matter and even less so should it be a matter of the federal government. 271 00:43:47.020 --> 00:43:57.020 As far as your point is concerned, doesn't my thing alienate some of the young? 272 00:43:57.020 --> 00:44:07.860 of the Young. You might be right, but the intention of that chapter had been to force 273 00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:19.820 some of these people to either grow up or to disband. The libertarian movement has been 274 00:44:19.820 --> 00:44:34.820 have been greatly harmed by the fact that the public perception of them is these are people who are only interested in engaging in weird lifestyles, 275 00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:48.820 who want to smoke pot all day long, want to engage in whatever pedophilia, necrophilia, whatever perversion that you can imagine. 276 00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:59.820 And it is not difficult to explain that the libertarian party, of course, or the libertarian movement, more generally speaking, has attracted these types of crackpots. 277 00:44:59.820 --> 00:45:11.820 Because the libertarian's view was always, yes, of course, these sorts of things should not be punished by physical punishment as long as they do not any harm. 278 00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:22.820 But what they have confused is that from that it does not follow, that they should not be punished by other means than physical punishment. 279 00:45:22.820 --> 00:45:35.820 That is, that we should exclude these people, that we should refuse to have any dealings with them who propagate these sorts of things. 280 00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:50.820 And again, if I ask my own students what they think about the libertarians, their general view is that these are just weird types, full of losers and so forth. 281 00:45:50.820 --> 00:46:03.780 and this chapter was written in order to distance a movement that I think has to 282 00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:11.940 be a bourgeois movement in order to be successful. If the libertarians do not 283 00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:38.940 If they do not present themselves as a group of people who are upstanding bourgeois types who are successful in their profession, care about their neighbors, are concerned about their own behavior and so forth, then we will never amount to anything. 284 00:46:38.940 --> 00:47:08.940 The state that I live in allows municipalities to annex surrounding areas without even a majority vote of the people that will be annexed, involuntary annexation, and in response to that, a lot of people in the areas that are targeted by the nation 285 00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:30.940 have, instead of fighting the whole concept of involuntary annexation, they have just decided to look out by forming a municipality of their own, the incorporation, which, in my view, incorporation is involuntary annexation of people who don't want to incorporate. 286 00:47:30.940 --> 00:47:46.940 So it seems like in response to a possible threat of annexation, they're taking on an actual real harm of incorporation. 287 00:47:46.940 --> 00:47:50.940 And they all start out by saying, oh, this is just going to be a paper incorporation. 288 00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:56.940 This won't be a real town to protect us from being involuntarily annexed. 289 00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:07.940 And of course, two years later you have a fire department, parks, a municipal swimming pool, an office complex and all that. 290 00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:17.940 And there is becoming a movement to actually fight on the state level, the whole concept of in-law and free annexation. 291 00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:38.940 I've always struggled with that. Do you throw in with the people who want to incorporate on the idea that it's true, it may keep you from being annexed? Or do you try to point out that both are unacceptable? And that's what I've chosen to do, but it's a difficult position. 292 00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:52.460 I think the greater danger is this involuntary annexation. 293 00:48:52.460 --> 00:48:59.460 But you see, that's only a potential danger, the way I see it, the incorporation, you know, 294 00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:04.460 it's like the people who are interested in incorporating, you know, kind of whip up this 295 00:49:04.460 --> 00:49:07.460 frenzy of we're going to be annexed, we're going to be annexed, you know, you don't know 296 00:49:07.460 --> 00:49:13.460 if that's true or not, and you're spending your energy incorporating when you could be 297 00:49:13.460 --> 00:49:14.460 finding annexation. 298 00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:21.780 so I don't know I mean what is the status that they had before you're 299 00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:27.220 probably like a county yeah unincorporated unincorporated county 300 00:49:44.460 --> 00:49:47.460 Is it known hard to avoid a possible one? 301 00:50:10.460 --> 00:50:12.460 Incorporate and secede. 302 00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:27.940 and Finance. Again, I can only repeat what I mentioned before. The conditions for these 303 00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:39.140 secessionist movements are different from place to place. They exist in Belgium, for 304 00:50:39.140 --> 00:50:57.140 For instance, the Flamme's Bloc, there's a party that they try to outlaw, basically, that tries to break away from the larger Belgium. 305 00:50:57.140 --> 00:51:08.140 There it is, the key issue seems to be immigration as far as I can recognize from afar. 306 00:51:08.140 --> 00:51:31.140 There has always in the United States existed for instance some sentiments in the states of Washington and Oregon and Montana to align themselves with British Columbia and create an independent unit there. 307 00:51:31.140 --> 00:51:44.140 I do not know enough about the local conditions there, but people who come from there told me that this is something that has some sort of history and tradition. 308 00:51:44.140 --> 00:51:57.140 So again, it would depend on certain aggravations coming, so to speak, from the central government, plus a charismatic leader appearing. 309 00:51:57.140 --> 00:52:17.140 A man or a woman who is part of the natural aristocracy, those are my terms, who can pull something like this off? 310 00:52:17.140 --> 00:52:25.540 There has existed a movement, the Lega Nord, in Italy that tried to do that. 311 00:52:25.540 --> 00:52:35.540 Unfortunately, after some initial successes, the leader of that group has become corrupted 312 00:52:35.540 --> 00:52:44.500 and has been co-opted into the Italian central government. 313 00:52:44.500 --> 00:52:49.500 So, circumstances are different at different places. 314 00:52:49.500 --> 00:53:01.500 You need an act of aggression or an act of aggravation on the part of the central government in order to arouse the masses. 315 00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:08.500 You need somebody who then takes this up, popularizes it. 316 00:53:08.500 --> 00:53:24.500 And you need these people to understand that creating a larger number of units is not an economic anachronism, 317 00:53:24.500 --> 00:53:32.500 is not, so to speak, something that only Neanderthal men would want to have, 318 00:53:32.500 --> 00:53:40.380 But that there are good reasons, solid reasons for this. 319 00:53:40.380 --> 00:53:43.220 Just look at the world and look at these small places, 320 00:53:43.220 --> 00:53:49.940 how they do as compared with their surrounding larger units. 321 00:53:49.940 --> 00:53:52.460 Switzerland is more successful than any 322 00:53:52.460 --> 00:53:57.260 of these European countries that are in the European community. 323 00:53:57.260 --> 00:54:02.860 Liechtenstein is even more successful than Switzerland. 324 00:54:02.860 --> 00:54:06.460 Monaco is more successful than France. 325 00:54:06.460 --> 00:54:10.620 As a matter of fact, France actually 326 00:54:10.620 --> 00:54:16.700 forces French people working in Monaco to pay French taxes 327 00:54:16.700 --> 00:54:19.380 because they know otherwise there 328 00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:23.540 would be a mass exodus of French people to Monaco. 329 00:54:23.540 --> 00:54:38.540 So they grant the Monaco's tax structure only to non-French people, but not to the French for whom, of course, that would be the nearest place to go. 330 00:54:38.540 --> 00:54:48.540 Hong Kong is an enormously successful place. Singapore is an enormously successful place. 331 00:54:48.540 --> 00:54:57.740 So the empirical evidence clearly indicates that this is something that we can do, that can be done, can be successfully done. 332 00:54:57.740 --> 00:55:05.340 We have many examples of it. So it is of importance that people grasp. 333 00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:14.940 We are not as a, so to speak, only because something bad happens to us as the last resort, 334 00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:25.940 We resort to secession separating us, but that is actually something that is a good in itself. 335 00:55:25.940 --> 00:55:31.940 There's actually more closer examples in the United States. You can look at certain Indian reservations 336 00:55:31.940 --> 00:55:37.940 and how they're succeeding and they're becoming economically rich, literally. 337 00:55:37.940 --> 00:55:39.940 Of course, most of them is because... 338 00:55:39.940 --> 00:55:40.940 Casinos, yeah. 339 00:55:40.940 --> 00:55:43.940 But you have to look at what they're doing with the money. 340 00:55:43.940 --> 00:56:00.940 Why don't we have, whatever, the Mises Institute reservation, something like this, or various 341 00:56:00.940 --> 00:56:06.700 other places who just simply insist, look, you grant that to our Native Americans, why 342 00:56:06.700 --> 00:56:13.020 Why don't we, we other people, get the same rights as the natives? 343 00:56:13.020 --> 00:56:19.260 Also having our reservation and then just establishing casinos there and whatever, whatever 344 00:56:19.260 --> 00:56:26.260 we regard as successful economic ventures. 345 00:56:26.260 --> 00:56:33.540 The central government has difficulties, for instance, denying other people the right that 346 00:56:33.540 --> 00:56:41.540 that they give to these tribes, because people say, well, why should they get that, and we can't. 347 00:56:41.540 --> 00:56:49.540 They've gone out and bought additional land, then declaring it tribal. They say, go away. 348 00:56:49.540 --> 00:56:56.540 Yeah, yeah. I mean, sometimes you just need to find one Indian who declares himself a tribe, 349 00:56:56.540 --> 00:57:00.540 and then lots of other tribesmen just join them. 350 00:57:00.540 --> 00:57:20.540 The idea of declaring ourselves some sort of we are tribe, I have to find a name for it, but I'm sure we will come up with it. 351 00:57:20.540 --> 00:57:30.540 Can you speak a little bit louder? 352 00:57:50.540 --> 00:57:58.540 Yes, if these movements then also allow separation from them. 353 00:57:58.540 --> 00:58:07.540 I'm pretty sure that if the Basques would separate, they will ruin the country pretty quickly. 354 00:58:07.540 --> 00:58:15.540 But if they would allow, let's say, San Sebastian to say, we are not joining in the separation, 355 00:58:15.540 --> 00:58:23.540 If we become independent, we either stay with Spain or we become independent, then I would say, let them try it. 356 00:58:23.540 --> 00:58:40.540 You see, smaller units also learn more quickly from their own mistakes in these artificial states that were created, for instance, after World War I. 357 00:58:40.540 --> 00:58:44.540 Take Yugoslavia as an example. 358 00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:55.540 The complaint of all these various ethnic groups was, whatever goes wrong in Croatia is the fault of the Serbs who run the central government. 359 00:58:55.540 --> 00:59:01.540 Whatever goes wrong in Slovenia is the fault of the Serbs who run the central government. 360 00:59:01.540 --> 00:59:04.540 In Russia, the same sort of thing. 361 00:59:04.540 --> 00:59:16.540 Whenever or whatever the Lithuanians complain, they say, oh, it's because the Russians rule us and that's why the mess exists in Lithuania. 362 00:59:16.540 --> 00:59:23.540 Let them have their own place, then they can no longer say it is the Russians that are responsible for it. 363 00:59:23.540 --> 00:59:27.540 They have to take responsibility themselves. 364 00:59:27.540 --> 00:59:47.540 The Slovenes who have seceded and the Croats who have seceded from the former Yugoslavia have a far more difficult task at hand now to blame anybody for the mess that they themselves create. 365 00:59:47.540 --> 01:00:02.540 And as a matter of fact, we can expect that some of these deceding units will do worse than they would do if they would continue to be dominated by the surrounding majority place. 366 01:00:02.540 --> 01:00:06.540 And others would do significantly better. 367 01:00:06.540 --> 01:00:27.540 But it is precisely the competition between these small units and the movement of people from unit to unit which speeds up the learning process and makes some people learn maybe for the very first time who were absolutely resistant to ever learn anything because they always had somebody else to blame. 368 01:00:27.540 --> 01:00:35.540 In the European Union, those countries join. Do they have an opt to unjoin if they do? 369 01:00:57.540 --> 01:01:03.540 I think without the permission of the rest of the public, otherwise, what is at work? 370 01:01:03.540 --> 01:01:09.540 There's probably not even a statement like that in whatever articles or treaties that happen. 371 01:01:09.540 --> 01:01:15.540 I think some people try to get something like that in. I haven't followed the discussion about it. 372 01:01:15.540 --> 01:01:21.540 There are pages in the new constitution, so there must be some room for that. Like a thousand pages. 373 01:01:21.540 --> 01:01:39.540 The idea of secession is very inspiring, but of course the southern states tried that and failed. 374 01:01:39.540 --> 01:01:51.540 Yeah, I think it might be, the first one should point out that of course there was also a successful act of secession in the United States, the initial one. 375 01:01:51.540 --> 01:02:03.540 The second point I think is, from the point of view of the central government, it always appears far more dangerous if large sections secede. 376 01:02:03.540 --> 01:02:15.540 Because of this, I prefer this model of the European Middle Ages where you had a multitude of free cities and so forth, 377 01:02:15.540 --> 01:02:32.540 which appears far less dangerous from the point of view of the central government and is in a way also more likely to have spillover effects. 378 01:02:32.540 --> 01:02:45.540 So that if one place succeeds in it, you can almost predict that at many dispersed other places, similar events will take place, 379 01:02:45.540 --> 01:02:52.540 which then make it also very difficult to engage in crackdown operations. 380 01:02:52.540 --> 01:03:06.540 If a large, contiguous territory secedes, you can invade this in a way far more easily than if a place there secedes, a place there secedes, then you have to disperse your troops. 381 01:03:06.540 --> 01:03:18.540 And the American troops, as you know, they are all in foreign countries, so they don't have anything anymore to crack down with. 382 01:03:18.540 --> 01:03:27.540 If Auburn secedes, do they secede from the county or from Alabama or from the U.S. or from everything at one time? 383 01:03:27.540 --> 01:03:31.540 Would there be a legal structure in doing that? 384 01:03:31.540 --> 01:03:39.540 No, the free city of Auburn. They can adopt whatever legal code they want to adopt. 385 01:03:39.540 --> 01:03:47.540 As I explained, in the Middle Ages you had cities that adopted Magdeburg law or Hamburg law or whatever it is. 386 01:03:47.540 --> 01:04:17.540 and I would recommend that you just in order to maintain so to speak friendly relationship with the higher levels of government that you would say of course every county building we still recognize the county as owning it every federal building of course the government can still occupy the federal building but you are no longer entitled to collect taxes here and and your laws 387 01:04:17.540 --> 01:04:46.540 I just wanted to point out the problem with the Southern Secession was that when they left, they took 80% of the federal revenue with them, so that's why it didn't work. 388 01:04:46.540 --> 01:04:53.740 I mean, again, I would think that if these small scales of sessions happen, eventually 389 01:04:53.740 --> 01:05:00.060 it will also amount to these amounts, but initially it is just a little bit, so what, 390 01:05:00.060 --> 01:05:01.060 we lose Auburn. 391 01:05:01.060 --> 01:05:02.060 Big deal. 392 01:05:02.060 --> 01:05:03.060 Go to Appalachian counties. 393 01:05:03.060 --> 01:05:04.060 Some Appalachian counties might be a good place to start. 394 01:05:04.060 --> 01:05:05.060 No revenue law. 395 01:05:05.060 --> 01:05:06.060 No revenue law. 396 01:05:06.060 --> 01:05:07.060 What is your view of the Free State Project? 397 01:05:07.060 --> 01:05:15.060 What is your view of the Free State Project? 398 01:05:15.060 --> 01:05:24.060 I'm sympathetic to the idea, but I think a state is far too big of a unit. 399 01:05:24.060 --> 01:05:33.060 I also think that New Hampshire is not particularly suitable for something like that. 400 01:05:33.060 --> 01:05:58.060 So it would be better off to do like Killington and just vote to secede from the state you're in? 401 01:05:58.060 --> 01:06:27.060 You used the word simultaneously as an edge to describe the secession movement that you would support, and I'm wondering what you think about something like the Branch Davidians. I know they're really kooky and weird, but if someone were to secede independently, and it was isolated rather than simultaneous with other secessionist movements, would it be? 402 01:06:28.060 --> 01:06:51.060 I think simultaneous would be better obviously, but I think in the Branch Davidian case it was precisely the kookiness of the people who did it that made it possible that people put up with the government doing to these people what they did. 403 01:06:51.060 --> 01:07:15.060 Even given their kookiness, you realize that there was quite amount of public resistance against that and that was by any means not a popular type movement on the part of the government and if you would have normal people like you and me. 404 01:07:15.060 --> 01:07:26.060 If we would secede, then it might be that the situation might be entirely different than some kooks like they were. 405 01:07:26.060 --> 01:07:36.060 I'd just like to add another case to your response to Roger's question about supporting socialist and socialist movements. 406 01:07:36.060 --> 01:08:06.020 I kind of work with the idea that Cuba has been attempting for a long time to secede from world government and you know it's had its problems for them and they've really only been isolated for the past 10 years but interestingly there you can talk about support for free enterprise and support for such things as that a lot more freely than you can talk about ever. 407 01:08:06.060 --> 01:08:26.060 Are you making any concessions to bow down to the will of the United States, or to other governing bodies? At least that's my view of it, from what I understand. I mean, it seems like what you were saying, that people learn from government states, and now they're not a part of it. 408 01:08:36.060 --> 01:08:43.180 Well, of course. They will go back to their old ways. They have far more attractive locations 409 01:08:43.180 --> 01:08:51.740 than Las Vegas. And at least according to the movies that I have seen, the Godfathers went 410 01:08:51.740 --> 01:08:52.740 there and so forth. 411 01:08:52.740 --> 01:08:59.740 I think in The Godfather and things like that, they were essentially governed by the United 412 01:08:59.740 --> 01:09:18.540 They might agree to be governed by some sort of mafia organization. 413 01:09:18.540 --> 01:09:26.040 You know in Vegas I also hear that frequently in the old days Vegas was a very nice place. 414 01:09:26.040 --> 01:09:31.120 That was when the mob controlled the city. 415 01:09:31.120 --> 01:09:39.740 This was not a no-government environment because the mob is, of course, a proto-government, 416 01:09:39.740 --> 01:09:43.720 but it was a very decentralized government. 417 01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:49.360 This mob family controlled this hotel, that mob family controlled that hotel, and so forth. 418 01:09:49.360 --> 01:09:58.760 In the meantime, with the feds being in charge there, the old-style flair seems to have disappeared. 419 01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:07.920 Unfortunately, I only moved to the place after the mobs were eliminated. 420 01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:16.160 We have now, we have the former, our mayor is a major defense attorney for the former 421 01:10:16.160 --> 01:10:18.600 mobsters. 422 01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:24.600 So given that, who knows what the prospects for Las Vegas are? 423 01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:30.600 Are you doing a succession of Mr. Merkel, Dr. Hoffman? 424 01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:38.600 Yes, it has, for instance, been proposed in the local newspaper over this Yucca mountain stuff. 425 01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:44.600 Because that is the most burning issue, obviously, for people. 426 01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:59.600 And I mean, I thought that was quite remarkable that the leading local newspaper, which is somewhat libertarian-oriented, more so than most other papers that I know of, did propose it. 427 01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:12.600 And because no decisions have yet been made about these things will be taking place, there are still court battles going on and so forth, 428 01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:23.600 It might come to the point where some people will collect signatures for a referendum to do this. 429 01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:29.600 And I think if they put it up for a referendum, that would pass. 430 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:36.600 And then I would be curious what will happen, but I do not think that they will send troops in. 431 01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:38.600 Just to declare it null and void. 432 01:11:38.600 --> 01:11:46.600 Well, even better, you can, once you use the seat, you can then start your own nuclear waste dump and charge lots of money. 433 01:11:50.600 --> 01:12:07.600 I was thinking about the Patriot Act and all these cities enacting legislature to, you know, disavow lots of things, different, you know, memos, but who would have thought that that was even going to happen? 434 01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:17.600 There's over a hundred cities and counties there. I don't understand if the federal police coming in can't order staff around. 435 01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:20.600 Yeah, there's a resistance to the Patriot Act. 436 01:12:20.600 --> 01:12:27.600 Because of the airport control that they do and being so inefficient in it, right, or what? 437 01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:36.600 Well, they're coming in saying that, you know, Auburn in its city government needs to do certain things 438 01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:42.600 to beef up their security or prevent terrorists from taking over the water supply or something. 439 01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:48.600 These local localities are resisting, starting to object to it. 440 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:52.600 Isn't that? Yeah, something along those lines. 441 01:12:52.600 --> 01:12:57.600 I think it has to be passed a resolution not to pay attention to the federal government. 442 01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:00.600 There's over a hundred cities that have done this. 443 01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:12.760 If one has succeeded successfully, help me describe, at this point I don't officially 444 01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:21.440 pay any federal taxes any longer, do I still use the Federal Reserve counterfeit as money, 445 01:13:21.440 --> 01:13:26.680 do I still have a banking system, can I still collect social security? 446 01:13:26.680 --> 01:13:35.680 No, of course you would not be able to collect that social security and so forth anymore, I assume, because the central government would cut that off. 447 01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:46.680 I assume that they would do that. You would be free to use any money you want, of course. 448 01:13:46.680 --> 01:13:58.680 Of course. Maybe you could use euros or whatever, silver dollars, who knows what. You could also continue to use U.S. dollars. 449 01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:11.680 But of course, again, I think we would want to go ultimately a step further. We would then, of course, also want to privatize the communities. 450 01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:40.680 That is, they are governments after all too. They might be less menacing as governments because they are small, one can easily avoid them or leave them and so forth, but nonetheless, they are also democratically elected people who just pass laws that might invade private property. 451 01:14:40.680 --> 01:15:09.680 The ultimate solution would be, of course, to privatize all public property that exists in these communities and the strategy of how to privatize that appears to me to be that, that we will distribute the private property in accordance with the tax payments. 452 01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:18.680 These are the tax payments that the members of the community have made and can prove that they have made them. 453 01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:35.680 They are obvious. We would not want to, let's say, give the schools to the school teachers or the judicial buildings to the judges. 454 01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:44.680 After all, the school teachers were paid out of taxes, they are tax recipients, they are not tax payers. 455 01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:54.680 It would add insult to injury if they would get the public property in which they work. 456 01:15:54.680 --> 01:16:04.680 Instead the schools should become the property of those people who have actually paid the taxes. 457 01:16:04.680 --> 01:16:21.680 They get a saleable share and then it will quickly happen that some people will buy up the necessary shares and run that as a private school or convert it to different purposes. 458 01:16:21.680 --> 01:16:44.680 with streets, for instance, most local streets, you would give the immediate adjacent inhabitants a share in the street with freedom to access the street 459 01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:56.680 and they can then hire a maintenance company or sell it to somebody who maintains the street. 460 01:16:56.680 --> 01:17:03.680 So, again, the details would have to be worked out a little bit. 461 01:17:03.680 --> 01:17:13.680 But the ultimate goal is, of course, to eliminate any type of public property. 462 01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:19.680 You would have an exit of the taxi. 463 01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:22.680 Okay, this is the last question that I take. 464 01:17:22.680 --> 01:17:37.680 Do you compare democracy and monarchy or government? I'd like to know how you think direct democracy and aristocratic government compare with democracy and monarchy. 465 01:17:52.680 --> 01:18:05.680 controlled by individuals or institutions that command particular respect among the public. 466 01:18:05.680 --> 01:18:16.680 You might have people who acquire positions similar to the position of kings. 467 01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:23.680 But again, they would be voluntarily acknowledged kings. 468 01:18:23.680 --> 01:18:31.680 Again, in a society like the United States, it is less likely because they have no monarchical royal tradition. 469 01:18:31.680 --> 01:18:44.680 But in many European places, of course, there exist these families, and many of these families still are well-to-do families, 470 01:18:44.680 --> 01:18:52.680 and our families that are respected individuals in large districts. 471 01:18:52.680 --> 01:19:00.680 So I consider a natural order to be a society that is basically aristocratic in nature. 472 01:19:00.680 --> 01:19:09.680 I think this was by and large also what the American founding fathers thought that America should look like. 473 01:19:09.680 --> 01:19:17.680 They consider, what is this statement of Randolph of Roanoke, 474 01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:29.680 I hate, I love liberty, I hate equality, I consider myself to be a natural aristocrat. 475 01:19:29.680 --> 01:19:45.680 So, yes, I think that is a normal tendency in natural orders that certain people rise to the rank of highly respected people and whether we call them nobles or aristocrats doesn't make any difference. 476 01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:57.680 In fact, there are aristocratic families and people who command the respect of nobles and aristocrats. 477 01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:09.680 I think it's necessary that societies have people like this. That is, people who live a life that is a model for other people. 478 01:20:09.680 --> 01:20:21.680 Not everybody can achieve this, but people somehow recognize this is the goal that one should strive for to attain. 479 01:20:21.680 --> 01:20:28.680 And of course, we have nowadays very few people who play this role. 480 01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:33.680 Certainly not our political elite. 481 01:20:33.680 --> 01:20:38.680 They are not exactly the type of people that you would look up to and say, 482 01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:44.680 look, my kid, son, daughter here, try to emulate what these people are doing. 483 01:20:44.680 --> 01:20:54.680 They are leading a life like it should be, should be led. They certainly don't. 484 01:20:54.680 --> 01:21:12.680 But yes, for the stability of societies, a class of people who just have this ability and who provide services, so to speak, free of charge, 485 01:21:12.680 --> 01:21:15.680 is vital. 486 01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:19.680 Again, I thank you very much and I hope you enjoyed it.