WEBVTT NOTE J. G. Machen: Calvinist, Revolutionary, Hero 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.760 Today's brown bag seminar on political economy is going to be led by Sean Rittenour, a graduate 2 00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:12.960 student in the economics department who everybody knows fairly well, I think. And he's going 3 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:22.280 to be introducing us to a Calvinist revolutionary hero today. So Sean, your work's cut out. 4 00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:29.360 All right, thanks. The name of the talk and discussion as appeared on the schedule is 5 00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:37.700 This is J. Gressom Machin, Calvinist Revolutionary Hero and I think it's an apt description. 6 00:00:37.700 --> 00:00:42.080 The bulk of my discussion, the bulk of my purely biographical information is coming 7 00:00:42.080 --> 00:00:51.080 from Ned Stonehouse's biography of Machin published by Banner of Truth Trust and featuring 8 00:00:51.080 --> 00:01:02.120 in a portrait, a reproduced painting of Machen in his academic garb while at Princeton Seminary. 9 00:01:02.120 --> 00:01:06.320 The Dictionary of Christianity in America begins its entry for J. Gresham Machen describing 10 00:01:06.320 --> 00:01:11.560 him as a quote, Presbyterian clergyman, New Testament scholar and educator. He was these 11 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.000 things to be sure about, he was much more and in my opinion he was one of the truly 12 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:31.000 John Gressen Machen was born in Baltimore, Maryland on July 28, 1881. His father, Arthur W. Machen, was a successful lawyer whose hobby was collecting the finest editions of available old books and reading classical literature in Latin and Greek. 13 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:49.000 W. Machen was born in Baltimore, Maryland on July 28, 1881. His father, Arthur W. Machen, was a successful lawyer whose hobby was collecting the finest editions of available old books and reading classical literature in Latin and Greek. He subsequently took up Italian after his 80th birthday. 14 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:54.000 His mother was also a cultured woman who hailed from Macon, Georgia. 15 00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:06.000 And during Machin's visit to her home, Machin developed a sympathy and appreciation for the South and its culture that he felt was disappearing over his lifetime. 16 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:13.000 In fact, one of the earliest papers that had been saved was a paper he wrote when he was 17 called The Old Homestead, 17 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:23.000 which was a very sympathetic portrait of the homestead from Macon and the old southern culture of his mother. 18 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:32.000 Mace was a brilliant man who began his education at a young age in the home. His father encouraged him to read the classics and his mother catechizing him. 19 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:42.000 And he could recite, I guess, the shorter catechism at a very tender age as he described it in an autobiographical sketch that he wrote once. 20 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.360 When he was eight, he wrote a letter to his mother telling her how much he liked the history 21 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:48.120 of Alexander the Great his father had given him. 22 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.960 His former schooling was in private school. 23 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:54.080 The regular course of study was strongly classical. 24 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:57.640 Latin was included in the course when he was 12. 25 00:02:57.640 --> 00:03:02.480 Greek was included when he turned 15 and continued throughout the entire course of his studies, 26 00:03:02.480 --> 00:03:06.560 it was pre-college studies. 27 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:13.160 Out of a total of 86 grades in extant reports over this time, 86 grades that he had reported, 28 00:03:13.160 --> 00:03:16.440 he ranked first in his class 78 times. 29 00:03:16.440 --> 00:03:19.900 So out of 86 classes he ranked first in his class 78 times. 30 00:03:19.900 --> 00:03:26.040 His marks were consistently in the high 90s and in the 1895-96 school year he was giving 31 00:03:26.040 --> 00:03:33.560 a final grade of 99 in geometry, algebra, Latin, Greek and natural science and English 32 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.720 and he made a paltry 97 in French, okay. 33 00:03:37.720 --> 00:03:42.000 So, that's right, very bright man. 34 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.720 After finishing prep school, he matriculated through John Hopkins University, 35 00:03:45.720 --> 00:03:53.480 earning a bachelor's degree and staying on an extra year to take classes from the renowned American classicist Basel L. Gildersleeve. 36 00:03:53.480 --> 00:04:00.160 Machen was unsure of exactly what he wanted to do after he graduated from John Hopkins. 37 00:04:00.160 --> 00:04:04.960 So after his graduate year, he considered a career in economics, interestingly enough, 38 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:10.080 and he took summer school courses in banking and international law at Chicago University. 39 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:11.980 In a letter to his father at that time, he wrote, 40 00:04:11.980 --> 00:04:16.160 I'm afraid I'm not going to feel any great enthusiasm for economics, and rather feel 41 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:20.720 that my choosing it to study next year is still a remote possibility, though nothing 42 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:26.160 else has come to me yet which seems better, not unlike my own case early on. 43 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:31.160 However, light may come during my stay at the university, though I don't feel that way now. 44 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:37.160 So he was kind of unsure. History, however, reveals that he did reject economics as a career, 45 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:44.160 and subsequently enrolled after encouragement from his family in Princeton Theological Seminary. 46 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:49.160 At the beginning of the 20th century, there was at Princeton Seminary a strong sense of continuity 47 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:54.160 with the classic Calvinism of people like Charles Hodge and his predecessors. 48 00:04:54.160 --> 00:05:05.160 And while at Princeton, Machin studied under Francis Payton and the great B.B. Warfield, considered one of the most eminent Calvinist scholars of all time. 49 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:13.160 He quickly ran a reputation of being a fine scholar and he completed a Master's of Philosophy in 1904 from Princeton University, 50 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:18.160 while completing the requirements for the Bachelor's of Divinity at the Seminary. 51 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.720 Seminary. So he completed a bachelor's in divinity at Princeton Seminary and also a master's 52 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:26.960 degree of philosophy at Princeton University at the same time. He greatly enjoyed life 53 00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:31.880 at Princeton, joining what was called the Benham Club, which was ostensibly an eating 54 00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:41.380 club but sort of functioned similar to fraternity, not unlike the Brown Bag Seminar. A former 55 00:05:41.380 --> 00:05:46.720 classmate of Machen recorded that, in the Benham Club, he, Machen, was in his element 56 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:47.720 and at his best. 57 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:51.800 At the club, fines were assessed for breaches of etiquette and at the end of the year these 58 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:55.480 fines were collected and the money sent to the Board of Foreign Missions as a contribution 59 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:56.960 from the club. 60 00:05:56.960 --> 00:06:01.360 And a poor throw or a bad catch of rolls, for instance, was a fine of one cent. 61 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.480 For using the word mister while at the club was ten cents. 62 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:07.420 For talking shop, ten cents. 63 00:06:07.420 --> 00:06:13.520 For mentioning the name of a marriageable maiden, twenty-five cents. 64 00:06:13.520 --> 00:06:16.880 More refusing to give a stunt when called upon, 25 cents. 65 00:06:16.880 --> 00:06:22.840 Machin seemed to enjoy nothing more than to be fined and to see others fined. 66 00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:26.520 And while at Princeton, he also developed a great fondness for football games, a great 67 00:06:26.520 --> 00:06:29.080 interest for collegiate sports. 68 00:06:29.080 --> 00:06:35.480 And when he later went off to serve at the YMCA in Europe during World War I, he wrote 69 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:38.720 letters back to his family, pleading for them to at least send the scores, because we have 70 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:43.400 no knowledge of any football over here, and actually kind of criticized the Europeans 71 00:06:43.400 --> 00:06:53.400 When you study in Germany, two things that the Germans really needed was one, two institutions that they needed. One was the Sabbath and the second was American football. 72 00:06:53.400 --> 00:07:05.400 That's true. That's a good point. I guess at that time they played football on Saturday. As long as you're not a Seventh Day Adventist, I guess you're okay. 73 00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:16.400 His knowledge of Greek bode him well in his studies of the New Testament, and that is what probably sent him on his way as a New Testament scholar because of his grasp of Greek. 74 00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:27.400 He won the first middle prize in New Testament exegesis for 1903 and 1904 at Princeton, and the following year he was awarded Princeton's New Testament Fellowship for his article, 75 00:07:27.400 --> 00:07:32.200 a critical discussion on the New Testament account of the virgin birth of Jesus, which 76 00:07:32.200 --> 00:07:36.280 was published, and this was rare for this to happen for a student, it was published 77 00:07:36.280 --> 00:07:45.280 in Succeeding Issues in the Princeton Theological Review, and got a lot of recognition within 78 00:07:45.280 --> 00:07:46.640 the next couple of years. 79 00:07:46.640 --> 00:07:50.000 The fellowship allowed him to pursue a year of advanced studies on the New Testament in 80 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:57.020 in Germany. And his affection for Princeton was such that he lamented having to leave 81 00:07:57.020 --> 00:08:02.480 Princeton writing to his mother, I think, in a letter, The fellows are in my room now 82 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:07.320 on the last Saturday night. Smokings and the cigars and eating the oranges, which it has 83 00:08:07.320 --> 00:08:13.640 been the greatest delight I ever had to provide whenever possible. My idea of delight is a 84 00:08:13.640 --> 00:08:18.400 It's a Princeton room full of fellows smoking. 85 00:08:18.400 --> 00:08:22.920 When I think of what a wonderful aid tobacco is to friendship and Christian patience, I 86 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:32.680 have sometimes regretted that I never began to smoke. 87 00:08:32.680 --> 00:08:36.560 One year later, he returned from Germany to Princeton to become an instructor in the New 88 00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:41.160 Testament department and was an instructor from 1906 to 1914. 89 00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:48.160 He held his position until his ordination, at which time he became assistant professor of the New Testament at Princeton. 90 00:08:48.160 --> 00:08:58.160 He did a year of service in the YMCA in Europe during World War I, and then devoted three years of study to what is generally considered his great work, 91 00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:02.160 The Origin of Paul's Religion, which was published in 1921. 92 00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:06.160 After that, and I don't have a copy of that book here, it is in the library. 93 00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:19.160 After that came the book Christianity and Liberalism, which was published in 1923, which argued that theological liberalism and historic Christianity were two entirely distinct religions. 94 00:09:19.160 --> 00:09:35.160 Walter Lippmann, in his book Preface to Morals, said of this work that for its acumen, its saliency, and for its wit, this cool and stringent defense of orthodox Protestantism is, I think, the best popular argument produced by either side in the controversy, 95 00:09:35.160 --> 00:09:43.160 which will do well to listen to Dr. Machen, the liberals have yet to answer him, and I would argue that they still haven't answered him. 96 00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:51.160 This book crushes his opposition, the opposition that was trying to find a, quote, historical, unsupernatural Jesus. 97 00:09:51.160 --> 00:10:00.160 And it's interesting, if you, recently I was at Books-a-Million, I was looking up, like, works on historical Christianity. 98 00:10:00.160 --> 00:10:18.160 If you look up books by popular or academic historicists, you find a number of works, particularly works by guys like Spong, so-called self-proclaimed Bishop Spong, 99 00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:27.160 and some other historian out of, I believe it was Harvard, something called the Unauthorized History of the New Testament. 100 00:10:27.160 --> 00:10:39.160 Basically, the New Testament is not historically sound. We all know that the early versions were not good versions of the New Testament. 101 00:10:39.160 --> 00:10:43.160 We can't trust the apostles to write what really happened, blah, blah, blah. 102 00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:50.160 You've quickly looked at the index, and they don't mention Machen. They don't mention F.F. Bruce. They don't mention E.J. Young. 103 00:10:50.160 --> 00:10:55.160 So it's clear that they just don't know what they're talking about. They don't know the scholarship, and they don't speak to any of these issues. 104 00:10:55.160 --> 00:11:09.160 So these people that claim that, well, liberalism is here to stay, again, in 1990, is basically, it's not even scholarship. It's just writings bathed in ignorance. 105 00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:30.160 Now, the logic of Machen's opposition to theological liberalism led to a confrontation both within Princeton Seminary, both with Princeton Seminary and with the Presbyterian Church in the USA, which was his denomination. 106 00:11:30.160 --> 00:11:37.800 After a reorganization of the board in 1929 in order to allow a more inclusive theological atmosphere at the seminary, 107 00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:44.240 Machin and a number of conservative professors resigned from Princeton Seminary and founded Westminster Theological Seminary, 108 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:48.400 regarded today still as one of the finest academic seminaries in the United States. 109 00:11:48.400 --> 00:11:55.000 In 1930, he published another great piece of scholarship entitled The Virgin Birth of Christ, 110 00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:13.000 which kind of grew out of the article that won the fellowship at Princeton and his book, The Virgin Birth of Christ, defended the historicity of the Gospel narrative and again is still considered authoritative on the subject. 111 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:24.000 Further struggles in the Presbyterian Church in the USA over liberalism and the Church's missionary corps brought Manchin into conflict with the darling of the Liberals, Pearl S. Buck, 112 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:31.000 and led Manchin and some conservative pastors to start up the Independent Board for Presbyterian Foreign Missions in 1933. 113 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:38.000 The denomination didn't like this and they took action to boot him out of the denomination in 1935. 114 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:45.000 He subsequently founded, along with several more conservative pastors, what became the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. 115 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:56.000 And Machin died on January 1st, 1937 of pneumonia. He developed during a trip to Bismarck, North Dakota, rallying support for the denomination. 116 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:03.000 Now one of the things that made Machin a truly great figure, in my opinion, was his holding to the classic Reformed theology, 117 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:11.000 in that he saw Jesus Christ, the living Son of God, as the Lord of all life, a physical and intellectual, as well as his moral life. 118 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:17.000 And this led him to embrace scholarship and led him to derive from scripture a profound libertarianism. 119 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:22.000 He understood that the individual had dignity because it was created in the very image of God. 120 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.000 The individual is created in the image of God and therefore has an amount of dignity. 121 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:32.000 He wrote in an article published in the July 1st, 1924 Survey Graphic magazine, 122 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:40.000 Quote, it is true that Christianity, as over against certain social tendencies of the present day, insists upon rights of the individual souls. 123 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:51.000 We do not deny that fact. On the contrary, we glory in it. Christianity, if it be true Christianity, must place itself squarely in opposition to the soul-killing collectivism which is threatening to dominate our social life. 124 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:57.000 It must provide the individual soul with a secret place of refuge from the tyranny of psychological experts. 125 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:07.000 It must fight the great battle for liberty of the children of God. The rapidly progressing liberty is one of the most striking phenomena of recent years. 126 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.000 I think the rapidly retrogressing liberty is one of the most striking phenomena of recent years. 127 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:19.000 If liberty is to be preserved against the materialistic paternalism of the modern state, there must be something more than courts and legal guarantees. 128 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:29.000 A freedom must be written not merely in the Constitution, but in the people's heart. And it can be written in the heart, we believe, only as a result of the redeeming work of Christ. 129 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:39.000 Machen held the Calvinist doctrine that men in their natural state are totally depraved. The heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things. Who can know it, as it says in Jeremiah? 130 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:57.000 Machin put it this way in his book, The Christian View of Man, which was basically an edited collection of radio addresses that he made while at Westminster in the 30s. 131 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:03.000 And I think actually published only after he died. He completed these in 1936, I believe. 132 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:26.000 I believe. Machen put the issue of man's fallen nature this way. Thus all mankind through the fall sin of Adam in the Garden of Eden has become corrupt and utterly unable to please God. The individual sins that men commit are but manifestations of that profound corruption of man's nature. The fruit is corrupt because the tree is corrupt. 133 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:34.000 So, Machin didn't have a Pollyannic, I don't know if that's the right word, didn't have an overly optimistic view of human nature, in other words. 134 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:39.000 He didn't trust, he wouldn't trust people in the state, for instance, to make things better. 135 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:42.000 He wouldn't trust Bill Clinton to build that bridge in the 21st century. 136 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:47.000 And it's interesting, I found this quote out of Forum magazine in 1931. 137 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:55.000 Because of the fallen state of man, the chance of building the Kingdom of God on Earth via political means is nil. 138 00:15:55.000 --> 00:16:02.000 We can't trust politicians because they're fallen individuals. In the Forum Magazine article of March of 1931, he wrote, 139 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:09.000 Our comfortable utilitarian world proved not to be so comfortable after all. And this is writing with respect to World War I. 140 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:16.000 In some directions, indeed, there was advance, even in warfare, over conditions that had prevailed before. Antiseptic surgery, no doubt, has accomplished much. 141 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:27.000 But in other directions, there was a marked decline. The notion of the nation in arms, that redoubtable product of the French Revolution, was carried on to something approaching its logical result. 142 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:36.000 Even more logical and even more damnable, no doubt, will be the results in the next war. And of course, he didn't live to see Hiroshima or Nagasaki, for instance. 143 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:44.000 Modern scientific utilitarianism, in other words, did not produce the Millennium prior to 1914. 144 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:51.000 And there is not the slightest evidence that it has produced the Millennium since that time, or that it will ever produce the Millennium in ages to come. 145 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.000 Evidently, Bill Clinton has not read much of Matron. 146 00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:01.000 We cannot usher in the Kingdom of God using the state. We cannot persuade men with a club, was Matron's point of view. 147 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:06.000 point of view. We cannot do God's will before we trust him, but we cannot force people into that trust. 148 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:12.000 So it makes no sense to try to force people to be good using the means of the state because it won't work. 149 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.000 Machen was very concerned about expanding the state and the expanding statism of his day. 150 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:27.000 And in 1932 and 36, during those elections, he deserted the Democratic Party because he greatly opposed Roosevelt's policies of state advancement. 151 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:33.000 How did Machen's political philosophy then manifest itself in his views on various issues of the day? 152 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:43.000 Well, first, he was no fan of World War I. He didn't like war at all. He hated war. In 1914, Machen was relatively sympathetic to Germany's position during the war. 153 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:56.000 And he wrote in a letter to his mother, quote, the alliance of the Great Britain with Russia and Japan seems to me still an unholy thing, an unscrupulous effort to crush the life out of a progressive commercial rival. 154 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.000 Imperialism, whether it be British or German, he decried as satanic. 155 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.000 Immediately before the United States entry into World War I, 156 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.000 Machen wrote, quote, the country seems to be rushing into the two things 157 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.000 which I am more strongly opposed than anything else in the world. 158 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.000 An alliance, a permanent alliance with Great Britain, 159 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:18.000 which will inevitably mean a continuance of the present vassalage 160 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.000 and a permanent policy of compulsory military service 161 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.000 with all the brutal interference of the state in the individual and family life 162 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.000 and Family Life, which that entails. 163 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:34.000 Princeton is a hotbed of patriotic enthusiasm and military ardor, which makes me feel like a man without a country. 164 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.000 That's pretty strong words to his brother. 165 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:43.000 Yeah, right. He was greatly opposed to the centralization of education in America. 166 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:49.000 And, of course, he had a great – I mean, he was an educator, and so he felt very passionately about education. 167 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:57.000 On January 12, 1926, in an address before a group called the Sentinels for Freedom in Washington, D.C., he stated, 168 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:04.000 quote, one of the fundamental principles of liberty which is involved in the present issue is the principles of the right of voluntary association, 169 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:13.000 the right of persons to associate themselves voluntarily for the propagation of their own views, however erroneous they might be thought of others in the field of religion or in other spheres. 170 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:26.000 Spheres. This measure cannot be understood, that is, the measure to create a Federal Department of Education. This measure cannot be understood unless it is viewed in connection with related measures like the so-called Child Labor 171 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:37.000 Amendment or like the Sterling Reed Bill, which provided for Federal aid to the states and which really would take away what measure of states' rights we possess. The establishment of a Federal Department of 172 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:50.000 The Federal Department of Education would be a step and a decisive step in exactly the direction as those measures of which we have just been speaking. Federal aid to education inevitably means federal control. This was in 1926. 173 00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:00.000 In February of that same year, Machin testified before the Senate Committee on Education and Labor and the House Committee on Education in Washington espousing exactly these same views. 174 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.000 And in what could have been a rebuttal of the Chicago School, he testified, quote, 175 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:10.000 People say, you know, that this Federal Department of Education is in the interest of efficiency. 176 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:17.000 They are always flinging that word efficiency at us, as though when that word is spoken, all the argument at once is checked. 177 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.000 Well, of course, efficiency just means doing things. 178 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.000 And I think the important thing to know is whether the things that are being done are good or bad. 179 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.000 If the things that are being done by any agency are good, I'm in favor of efficiency. 180 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:33.000 But if the things that are being done by the agency are bad, the less efficiency it has, the better it suits me. 181 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:43.000 Machen was also on record in opposition to, as he put it, the, quote, so-called child labor amendment to the Constitution, 182 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:48.000 which I think was, at that time, was maybe the 20th Amendment, I think, at that time. 183 00:20:48.000 --> 00:21:00.000 And he, in fact, he wrote an article to the Presbyterian, it was a magazine for the Presbyterian Church, entitled the so-called Child Labor Amendment. 184 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:14.000 Letters on this subject were published, letters of his on the subject of his opposition to the Child Labor Amendment was published in the New York Herald Tribune and the New York Times within two days of each other. 185 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:23.000 And it was odd. Looking back at like things he's written, it was almost as if he practically had like a quarterly letter in the New York Herald Tribune. 186 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:27.000 He had like six or seven letters in the span of just like a couple of years in the New York Herald Tribune. 187 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:36.000 He also had a letter on the subject published in the New Republic, opposing child labor laws on libertarian grounds. 188 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:43.000 And in an excellent article published in the Presbyterian, he argued against the Presbyterian Department of Temperance and Moral Welfare. 189 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:55.000 He thought that his denomination should not become a political lobby, and then points out that the amendment is not about child labor at all, but about increasing the power of the government over the lives of families. 190 00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:04.000 The amendment would have given Congress the power to quote, and this is from the amendment, to limit, regulate, and prohibit the labor of persons 18 years of age. 191 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:34.000 Machen recognized that this language was a legal blank check. If this amendment is adopted, he said, the control of the most intimate details of family life will eventually, in a few decades, if not in a few years, be in the hands of a centralized Washington bureaucracy, and American liberty with the decencies of the American home will be gone. Machen was a great lover of nature, enjoying walks, bicycle rides, and hikes, and mountain climbing, and he didn't have much good to say about what the government was doing with the national park system. 192 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.160 New York Herald Tribune explained, quote, Mount Desert Island 25 years ago contained 193 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:43.280 a small but exceedingly beautiful wilderness of mountain and forest like lake and stream. 194 00:22:43.280 --> 00:22:47.920 Then came the federal government. A network of carriage roads completed or contemplated 195 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:52.280 is scarring almost every mountainside. At the side of the roads, the forest is being ruthlessly 196 00:22:52.280 --> 00:22:57.400 cleaned up until every bit of natural charm is destroyed. No mossy glen or shady ravine 197 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:02.120 is apparently to be spared. And all this is being done not in a region which needed the 198 00:23:02.120 --> 00:23:15.520 The Last specific issue I want to touch upon is Machen's view on prohibition, especially 199 00:23:15.520 --> 00:23:21.520 considering some past seminars we've had and interest of certain professors here. Machen 200 00:23:21.520 --> 00:23:29.280 opposed a prohibition, opposed the 18th Amendment, and it cost him plenty in his career and personal 201 00:23:29.280 --> 00:23:34.440 Life. In the spring of 1926, Princeton Seminary's Board of Directors nominated Manchin to be 202 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:40.080 appointed to the Chair of Apologetics at Princeton Seminary. By this time, however, because of 203 00:23:40.080 --> 00:23:44.040 his publications and his views, the liberals in his own denomination had enough of Manchin 204 00:23:44.040 --> 00:23:49.520 and were looking for an issue with which to hang him. In May of 1926, the Presbytery of 205 00:23:49.520 --> 00:23:55.360 New Brunswick held its assembly at Baltimore. Now when he was one of the about eight or 206 00:23:55.360 --> 00:24:00.000 There are nine members still there that hadn't left. A resolution was introduced endorsing 207 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:06.600 the 18th Amendment and the Volstead Act. Machin voted no against the resolution, against the 208 00:24:06.600 --> 00:24:12.160 endorsement, but he did not speak against the resolution. He didn't give an address 209 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:17.400 on the subject. In an irregular move, the Reverend Peter Emmons asked whether he wanted 210 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:21.840 his vote, Machin wanted his vote recorded, and Machin said he did not. Nevertheless, 211 00:24:21.840 --> 00:24:30.840 and its wide publicity was given to Machen's vote and it was interpreted and used by his enemies to paint Machen as having a loose and evil attitude towards temperance and even drunkenness itself. 212 00:24:30.840 --> 00:24:37.840 Now falsehoods began to spread that he was wet or even a drunkard. Machen's a drunk. 213 00:24:37.840 --> 00:24:47.840 And it was most often stated that the Machen family money was made in the brewery business and that he continued to depend on it for a source of income. 214 00:24:47.840 --> 00:24:54.480 And none of these reports have any shred of truth, and Stonehouse does a great job, was 215 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:59.560 allowed by the family to look at the financial documents and the wills and the financial 216 00:24:59.560 --> 00:25:03.960 statements of the Manchin family and found that they've never got any money, never owned 217 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.960 any stock in any brewery company whatsoever. 218 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:13.400 Manchin did not think prohibition was a wise policy because he disliked centralized government. 219 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:17.200 He was also opposed to the Church's entry into the political field in accordance with 220 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:22.700 the Southern Presbyterian Emphasis on Limited Scope of the Church's Functions. 221 00:25:22.700 --> 00:25:25.440 His family's background was hardly prohibitionist. 222 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.360 There's a letter talking about how glad his happiest dad was to be able to bring out the 223 00:25:29.360 --> 00:25:34.460 Madeira to serve to his guests at one of his parties with all these, you know, these Greek 224 00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:38.340 and Latin speakers that he hung out with. 225 00:25:38.340 --> 00:25:45.880 And Mises himself did not consider total abstinence to be correct as a principle because he did 226 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:50.560 He did not think that scripture warranted a total abstinence position on alcohol. 227 00:25:50.560 --> 00:25:54.560 He once wrote to his mother that he was vigorously opposed to the efforts of William Jennings 228 00:25:54.560 --> 00:25:59.320 Bryan in behalf of a Presbyterian assembly deliverance on the issue because he felt that 229 00:25:59.320 --> 00:26:03.840 it only served to obscure the gospel and distract people from what the church was about. 230 00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:08.360 However, he himself virtually practiced total abstinence, at least during his ministerial 231 00:26:08.360 --> 00:26:09.360 career. 232 00:26:09.360 --> 00:26:11.800 He didn't drink. 233 00:26:11.800 --> 00:26:18.900 And as Stonehouse put it, unfortunately commitment to the biblical principle of temperance or 234 00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:24.800 moderation as distinguished from total abstinence is identified by some persons with license 235 00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:28.840 and no allowance is made for the possibility that the defender of Christian liberty may 236 00:26:28.840 --> 00:26:33.440 consistently refrain from the exercise of that liberty. 237 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.960 And that happens all the time, still happening today. 238 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.480 With the help of these attacks, the liberals in the General Assembly overturned Machen's 239 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:55.480 and Human Action's Chairship and subsequently began an investigation into the seminary itself, which ultimately led to the liberal reorganization of the seminary, of the Board of Directors rather, and with Machen and his people leaving and founding Westminster. 240 00:26:55.480 --> 00:27:07.480 Machen's legacy is one that I think all of us should aspire to. He was a great Christian, a great scholar, a great theologian and a great libertarian, respected, if not always agreed with, by most of those he ran across. 241 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:21.480 Even writers whose viewpoints were antithetical to his own, including Pearl Buck and the Unitarian Albert Diefenbach, acknowledged that he stood head and shoulders above his contemporaries in strength of character and fidelity to principle. 242 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:28.480 On Machen's death, H. L. Mencken, who was no fan of conservative Christianity, wrote that, 243 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:32.980 Though I could not yield to his reasoning, I could at least admire, and did greatly admire, 244 00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:37.980 his remarkable clarity and cogency as an apologist, allowing him his primary assumptions. 245 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:40.980 Machen said something that nice about anybody? 246 00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:42.980 Yeah, I know, it's hard to believe, isn't it? 247 00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:49.980 J. Gresham Machen was a fine example of a conservative Calvinist whose views led him to embrace a libertarian political philosophy. 248 00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:55.980 Wow, thank you very much. 249 00:27:55.980 --> 00:28:07.980 The margin there, though, it seems to be a tricky margin, where the maitre is advocating that the Church itself not become political. 250 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:21.980 And yet, at the same time, he's obviously very active and feeling compelled himself to political commentary, and in some cases, testifying before Congress. 251 00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:25.980 for Congress. That's kind of a tricky line to walk, isn't it? 252 00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.980 Yeah. 253 00:28:26.980 --> 00:28:28.980 As a representative of the Church. 254 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:36.980 Right. I mean, it could, yes, very well be. You just have to make sure that you're not speaking for the Church. 255 00:28:36.980 --> 00:28:42.980 I'm not speaking as a citizen. And that the Church preach correctly on, say, moral and social issues. 256 00:28:42.980 --> 00:28:51.980 The citizens should be sanctified enough to make what would be correct biblical decisions in the voting booth, put that on. 257 00:28:51.980 --> 00:28:52.980 Yes? 258 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:57.980 What's your opinion on the following? Because you certainly know more about the arguments than I ever will. 259 00:28:57.980 --> 00:29:02.980 It seems to me a misnomer to say that you do not want the Church to be political in the following sense. 260 00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:05.980 I mean, I think they put the first commandment first for a reason. 261 00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:09.980 And we never sort of want to say, you know, we shouldn't have any other gods before me. 262 00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:12.980 Well, constantly we're trying to replace God with the state. 263 00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:15.980 Now it seems to be that's the heart of his argument there, 264 00:29:15.980 --> 00:29:18.980 is it's not necessarily trying to politicize the church, 265 00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:21.980 but the church understanding its role is, 266 00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:25.980 listen folks, if you want a jettisoned faith in God, markets, whatever you want to call it, 267 00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:29.980 you're going down the path of the hammer and sickle, basically. 268 00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:33.980 Yeah, yeah, I think that's, that's what I generally feel. 269 00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:48.980 I haven't found anything. I haven't found an article. I have not read nearly anything that he's written. 270 00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:53.980 I'm sure there's probably articles in the Presbyterian where he wrote on this subject. 271 00:29:53.980 --> 00:30:01.980 He had a couple articles. One was called, Does Fundamentalism Retard Social Progress? 272 00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:15.980 One was Christianity and liberty, and one was the responsibility of the Church in our new age, not to be confused with the new age of the 1980s and 90s. 273 00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:27.980 And those three articles basically carry the same theme that he didn't explicitly come out and say, talk about replacing God with a little G God like the State. 274 00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:41.980 But that seemed to me that's an implication throughout his entire thing, basically, and also that it's very dangerous to put our faith and trust in fallible human beings and give them the power to paternally direct our lives. 275 00:30:41.980 --> 00:30:53.980 But he never came out explicitly, and he never wrote anything explicitly, like an explicit political track explaining his philosophy on political matters either. 276 00:30:53.980 --> 00:31:06.980 Where do you think he would stand on this idea that politicians should deliver stump speeches from pulpits like we see all the time today? 277 00:31:23.980 --> 00:31:39.980 I mean, he believed that heart and soul. So he thinks that this politicizing that goes on, like some speaking from church pulpits, is just an abuse, a radical abuse of the pulpit. 278 00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:50.980 The church has no business. The church's business is to preach the gospel, to preach the Word of God, and it's not as no business giving a forum for particular political causes. 279 00:31:50.980 --> 00:31:59.980 I guess it's that he would have probably seen it the same way that we'd see someone make a stump or some car dealership in the pulpits, in the service or something like that. 280 00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:19.980 You know, your talk brings back a lot of memories because my grandfather on the mother side, who was a medical missionary to Korea, 281 00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:25.480 was involved in that very same thing about the former independent board. 282 00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:25.980 Oh really? 283 00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:34.980 Yeah, he was a missionary, he was in Korea at the time, and a member of the United Presbyterian Church, 284 00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:37.980 and very much a contemporary of nature. 285 00:32:37.980 --> 00:32:43.980 And the problem they were having was that they were under Japanese occupation. 286 00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:58.980 The Japanese were trying to force them to bow down to shrines, to the Shinto shrines, and they held out and the United Presbyterian Church ordered them to go ahead and bow down to shrines because it doesn't mean very much. 287 00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:03.980 And that was one of the huge issues that led to the forming of the Independent Board. 288 00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:21.980 It was not the issue, obviously, but it was basically that the straw that broke the camel's back, that was the last of the, and a number of them, my grandfather was a frock, as a result of this. 289 00:33:21.980 --> 00:33:33.980 I remember when I was young, my father telling me that he had this church to crock people like J. Gresham Machin, you know, and it names some others, he says that, you know, it tells you everything you need to know about them. 290 00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:43.980 But even to this day, I will not be a member of, I would never be a member of that particular nominating, you know, out of just honor to my grandfather. 291 00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:57.980 You used the word liberalism several times, and can you clarify what his opponents, what they believe theologically, and define them as liberals? 292 00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:29.980 and that the hardcore liberals even said that Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God, he never asked for and never, and always refused the worship of men, that basically it's, you know, Jesus was fine, but then along came Paul and spoiled all. 293 00:34:29.980 --> 00:34:37.980 There was Paul that attached the notion that Jesus Christ was the Son of the Living God. 294 00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:44.980 The liberal claim is that Jesus never made those claims, that Jesus was maybe an enlightened man, he was a great ethicist, 295 00:34:44.980 --> 00:34:46.980 but that he wasn't really the Son of God. 296 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:54.980 And that if we study the Gospels historically, we find that yes, it's just this unsupernatural Jesus that we're talking about 297 00:34:54.980 --> 00:35:00.980 about the Kingdom of God on Earth and how we should love our neighbor as ourselves. 298 00:35:00.980 --> 00:35:05.980 Machin points out in this, again, as Christian Albers is such a good book, he points out 299 00:35:05.980 --> 00:35:10.460 that it's just not true, that if you look at the documents, if you look at what Jesus 300 00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:15.780 himself said in the Sermon on the Mount, they're very high, they're a big linchpin of their 301 00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:16.780 whole argument. 302 00:35:16.780 --> 00:35:21.860 In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus was making claims for his being God. 303 00:35:21.860 --> 00:35:26.380 and claims are unmistakable, particularly to the Jewish people to whom he was speaking. 304 00:35:26.380 --> 00:35:32.420 And part and parcel of liberalism is denying that Jesus was really born of a virgin, that 305 00:35:32.420 --> 00:35:36.340 he really was resurrected from the dead, things like that. 306 00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:41.540 And denying that certain parts of the scripture was inspired, infallible Word of God. 307 00:35:41.540 --> 00:35:46.680 So who, so Paul is a modern day exponent of his view? 308 00:35:46.680 --> 00:35:49.620 Probably to the nth degree, I would say. 309 00:35:49.620 --> 00:35:54.340 But Harry Fostick was a very influential liberal at the time, and Henry Van Dyke, who was 310 00:35:54.340 --> 00:36:00.460 a friend of Matron's, wrote a virulent letter attacking Matron and attacking Matron's views 311 00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:04.980 and left basically saying he was leaving the church because Matron was still in the pulpit. 312 00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:10.340 And Henry Van Dyke wrote the text, You Joyful, Joyful, We Adore Thee, which if you read it, 313 00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:15.580 you can see the liberalism that's crept into that hymn, which makes me not like it as much 314 00:36:15.580 --> 00:36:16.580 as I used to. 315 00:36:16.580 --> 00:36:26.580 I think it's important to point out that a primary tenet of liberalism, theological liberalism in Protestant Christianity, 316 00:36:26.580 --> 00:36:36.580 is the denial that the Bible, the scripture, that you can derive doctrine for current situations in any way, or draw the scripture from the Bible. 317 00:36:36.580 --> 00:36:37.580 Right, that's true. 318 00:36:37.580 --> 00:36:56.580 There is a middle ground, so to speak, of people who are not literalists, and yet still believe that the Bible is the central tenet of the Protestant faith in drawing these documents, that sort of thing, the so-called New Orthodox tradition, which is very strongly formed, in a continental form, and to the extent of Presbyterian churches as well. 319 00:36:56.580 --> 00:37:03.580 So, liberalism really denied that you could even do that. This document was good for back then. It's not any good for now, basically. 320 00:37:03.580 --> 00:37:12.580 Everything has to be derived from experience. Not only that experience is good, but that it's all you can really rely on. 321 00:37:12.580 --> 00:37:18.580 And the seduction of the liberalism was that they still use the same language. They still use the same language. 322 00:37:18.580 --> 00:37:24.580 And some liberals at the time said, well, the Bible contains the Word of God, or contains what we think is the Word of God. 323 00:37:24.580 --> 00:37:27.580 But that's not the same thing as saying it is the Word of God. 324 00:37:27.580 --> 00:37:53.580 Does he draw a connection between theological liberalism and statism in this book? 325 00:37:57.580 --> 00:38:09.580 He points out that, yeah, in the sense that it's the theological liberals that are getting about to expanding the state, because we're wanting to solve our problems with the state. 326 00:38:09.580 --> 00:38:16.580 We have grave problems, not in this book necessarily, but in the 30s when he was writing, in the midst of the Depression. 327 00:38:16.580 --> 00:38:22.180 And in this book, the first address was on, well, why am I talking about God? 328 00:38:22.180 --> 00:38:28.180 Why am I spending radio time talking about God and not the NRA or not, you know, the unemployment crisis or whatever? 329 00:38:28.180 --> 00:38:35.180 And his point is that, look, the world is not all material and we can't solve our crisis. 330 00:38:35.180 --> 00:38:44.780 Our crisis is deep down the side of a moral crisis and we can't solve our problems by using fix-it government schemes that we need people... 331 00:38:44.780 --> 00:38:54.780 It's only by the Holy Spirit working in our lives as a result of us receiving Jesus as our Savior and having faith in Christ, that is what will turn our crisis around. 332 00:38:54.780 --> 00:39:00.780 And so he sees that liberalism that rejects that leaves us in an abyss of what else are we going to do? 333 00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:07.780 If we can't be truly sanctified as individuals by the blood of Christ, by the Holy Spirit, then what are we left with? 334 00:39:07.780 --> 00:39:12.780 We're left with some forms of materialist response. 335 00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:32.780 I think Machen felt that the secular utilitarianism led to a tendency of finding out what would be the greatest good for the greatest people and to do that thing, which allowed stateism, kind of like Mill allowed stateism in the back door, so to speak. 336 00:39:32.780 --> 00:39:41.300 Do you get the sense that he adhered to classical liberalism or was it just a 337 00:39:41.300 --> 00:39:50.380 pragmatic case-by-case scenario with respect to political liberalism, not the 338 00:39:50.380 --> 00:39:56.740 Christian liberalism? Yeah, I think he... Given his education he must have been 339 00:39:56.740 --> 00:40:25.740 Yeah, he, the impression I got was that he was generally opposed to government intervention on all issues and he was asked that point blank from one of the congressmen at the committee. He said, what's your general view of these things? And he says, I'm generally a view of all statists or all centralized forms of activity entering in, increasing activity. 340 00:40:25.740 --> 00:40:35.580 and encroaching upon the rights of individuals, but he was very clear to write on things and 341 00:40:35.580 --> 00:40:39.860 speak on things that he felt he knew something about. There were some issues that people 342 00:40:39.860 --> 00:40:46.780 wanted to speak about during this day that he refused to write an article about because 343 00:40:46.780 --> 00:40:51.460 he just didn't feel qualified. He felt qualified to speak on education because he was an educator. 344 00:40:51.460 --> 00:40:57.220 He felt qualified to speak on, say, the natural park system because he was in nature so much, 345 00:40:57.220 --> 00:40:59.420 and those types of things. 346 00:40:59.420 --> 00:41:04.540 Some of these quotes that I gave him were not, were from letters, so like his stuff 347 00:41:04.540 --> 00:41:08.740 about his, what he wrote about World War I, for instance, was in personal correspondence, 348 00:41:08.740 --> 00:41:10.220 wasn't published. 349 00:41:10.220 --> 00:41:16.740 So it seems, so, I mean, he never, there's no indication, he never cited, you know, in 350 00:41:16.740 --> 00:41:23.220 in any of these things, great classical liberal authors or anything like that. 351 00:41:23.220 --> 00:41:26.900 But I don't know, I think part of that, I don't know exactly if that was because he 352 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:32.900 just didn't, it's clear that he had an overarching political philosophy, but the nature of the 353 00:41:32.900 --> 00:41:38.340 way he was, he didn't want to overstep his bounds and speak on issues that weren't under 354 00:41:38.340 --> 00:41:39.340 his thing. 355 00:41:39.340 --> 00:41:41.300 I don't know how to answer that, I don't know. 356 00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:47.700 Well I mean it's a complex question because from what little we know of his theological 357 00:41:47.700 --> 00:42:00.060 views, it seems like there's a connection there. The theological views require that people 358 00:42:00.060 --> 00:42:09.240 do things on their own, that they have a domain to act under essentially. And then if the 359 00:42:09.240 --> 00:42:16.240 that the central government is controlling something and that takes those issues or those actions out of our domain. 360 00:42:16.240 --> 00:42:24.240 Right. He very much was interested in the right of freedom to assembly, for instance, and felt that he believed... 361 00:42:24.240 --> 00:42:34.240 He wrote a letter arguing against, I think, a law in Nebraska which made it illegal to teach foreign languages to children until they're like 16 or something like that. 362 00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:39.940 like that. It felt that, you know, that was, that's just basically not allowing them to 363 00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:45.120 have a classical education because they'll never pick up these languages like they need 364 00:42:45.120 --> 00:42:51.200 to at one, since they're so old. He also, and so he opposed that and he said it also 365 00:42:51.200 --> 00:42:56.160 he felt violated the right to, I don't know if it was a free speech issue. There's a free 366 00:42:56.160 --> 00:43:02.400 speech issue in another state like in Oregon or New York, the lust laws made it mandatory 367 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:09.400 that all private institutions be licensed by the state, not just public, but private institutions. 368 00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:19.400 And he felt that was a violation of these institutions' rights, both on assembly grounds and also on free speech. 369 00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:26.400 But he said he was not in favor of, I think the Phi Beta Kappa Society was wanting to preach kind of like one of these, 370 00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:33.680 is a radical free speech code, so that you had to be inclusive of all speech, that there 371 00:43:33.680 --> 00:43:41.400 was no speech that was not unpermitted or should be censored in any way, that were for 372 00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:46.920 the free flow of ideas, and Machen argued against that because, say, well, look, we're 373 00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:53.640 a private institution and we have to have the right to exclude people that we don't 374 00:43:53.640 --> 00:44:18.640 I'm just kind of curious. You said he was in Germany during World War I, and obviously he saw a problem with that. Did he write specifically at all about what was happening in terms of what he meant by socialism coming to a rise? 375 00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:38.640 He turned there to the bureaucratization in Russia and it's clear he didn't like what was going on there and he thought that all individualism and liberty was being crushed there, but he didn't really write much about what was actually going on or anything. 376 00:44:38.640 --> 00:44:50.640 There's a great account of his. He worked with the YMCA in Germany, which at that time was still the Young Man's Christian Association. 377 00:44:50.640 --> 00:44:55.640 It wasn't like some health club now that you can get cheap rooms at or something like that. 378 00:44:55.640 --> 00:45:00.640 They were basically kind of like a USO thing, but it was only more international. 379 00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:10.640 and he was working with French troops, you know, running, as he said, like, ineptly trying to run a small, delicate test to give, I guess, cheap food to the troops and stuff. 380 00:45:10.640 --> 00:45:17.640 There's a great letter that he wrote, the wash, doing laundry here is great, it makes your clothes wet, but it doesn't do much for getting them clean. 381 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:21.640 He hadn't had a bath in, like, several weeks and he said that... 382 00:45:21.640 --> 00:45:22.640 This is when he was in France. 383 00:45:22.640 --> 00:45:24.640 Yeah, he said, he said... 384 00:45:24.640 --> 00:45:26.640 Yeah, it's typical, I suppose. 385 00:45:26.640 --> 00:45:30.640 And he said that the underwear in France are cut very peculiarly. 386 00:45:30.640 --> 00:45:34.640 He's having trouble with his underwear because he didn't like the way they were cut. It's really weird. 387 00:45:34.640 --> 00:45:39.640 But anyway, so he sent this letter, a four-page letter, and then his parents stopped telling him, 388 00:45:39.640 --> 00:45:43.640 submitted it to the Baltimore Sun. Of course, it got printed immediately, the Baltimore Sun. 389 00:45:43.640 --> 00:45:47.640 And it felt kind of bad because he thought that the YMCA should have, 390 00:45:47.640 --> 00:45:50.640 you know, he should have got permission from them before printing anything. 391 00:45:50.640 --> 00:45:53.640 But I didn't have time to go into that. It was really fast and interesting stuff. 392 00:45:53.640 --> 00:46:22.640 and other stuff. He didn't want to go into military service because he was opposed to that and didn't, in fact there was some concern about even going over there at YMCA that once they got over there they may be co-opted and have to carry munitions from one point to the next and he was concerned about that and only after he was assured by the national director that he would have no part in that, that he went ahead and took the year appointment. 393 00:46:22.640 --> 00:46:26.640 Was he opposed to all war whatsoever? Was it just this particular war? 394 00:46:52.640 --> 00:46:58.640 I think the real enemy was imperialism and the war that was growing out of this imperialistic verb. 395 00:46:58.640 --> 00:47:03.640 That was the pre-Lincoln philosophy of conscription before we got to this. 396 00:47:03.640 --> 00:47:07.640 So that's I think very much a war of imperialism. 397 00:47:07.640 --> 00:47:09.640 War is fine as long as it's a war of defense. 398 00:47:09.640 --> 00:47:13.640 Right, right. More of kind of a just war type of philosophy. 399 00:47:13.640 --> 00:47:25.640 You know, in terms of the overall big picture here, in Makin's role and the timing of his role at the Princeton Seminary and so on, 400 00:47:25.640 --> 00:47:36.640 would you consider him more or less the last of the old guard in the Princeton Theological Seminary religion and so on, 401 00:47:36.640 --> 00:47:51.640 or was he somebody who made new advances and broke out in new directions and it just happened to be at the end of turning over to liberalism at this point in time? 402 00:47:51.640 --> 00:47:53.640 In terms of the theology? 403 00:47:53.640 --> 00:47:55.640 In terms of theology. 404 00:47:55.640 --> 00:48:04.640 Well no, I don't think he considered himself making any new, I guess I don't think he felt himself was making any new additions. 405 00:48:04.640 --> 00:48:20.640 Charles Hodge was fond, who was the head of the seminary a generation before, was fond of saying that an original argument has never came out of Princeton Seminary, and we're proud of it, because we're holding to the old Calvinism. 406 00:48:20.640 --> 00:48:50.640 And I think, in that respect, the second adjective, revolutionary, is probably not really apropos, maybe reactionary would be a better term, that he was reacting against what he saw as this unbiblical encroachments of liberalism and he was trying to hold the fort and he was, I mean, he and a handful of hardcore seminarians were the only intellectual Christians that were holding the fort at that time. 407 00:48:50.640 --> 00:48:55.480 I used to think, well, the nation's gone and that's it, but people like Sinclair Ferguson 408 00:48:55.480 --> 00:49:03.920 and other writers, he is clearly, beyond just his position on scripture, was clearly a monumental 409 00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:04.920 scholar. 410 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:11.000 I was reading his book and I just felt like a goof, like, what am I doing? 411 00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:19.160 Just because he knew so much and wrote so well, and just a great guy. 412 00:49:19.160 --> 00:49:25.800 Because at this time, most of the divinity schools and seminaries had already fallen, basically. 413 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:29.800 This was Princeton, like, I think they were kind of like the last of the... 414 00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:34.600 Well, them and you had the dispensation with Dallas Seminary that was kind of starting up, 415 00:49:34.600 --> 00:49:40.040 which is conservative and has produced probably some okay stuff in terms of like biblical exegesis 416 00:49:40.040 --> 00:49:47.400 or biblical, say, historical stuff. But they have a different way of approaching certain parts of 417 00:49:47.400 --> 00:50:17.400 The Princeton, I mean, there's definitely, when Machen left Princeton, that was pretty much, I mean, you can see that the Princeton Theological Seminary, I think, went downhill, but Westminster is continuing, I mean, still looked upon as a fine, high-level, academic, Calvinistic seminary, and again, you still have people that, high-level people coming out of there. Now, you probably don't have people, 418 00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:24.400 Probably not quite the quality of Machen. I definitely think Machen had a kind of approach 419 00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:33.400 not only to theology, but to culture that is no longer with us. He was very much a gentleman. 420 00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:37.680 His family is a cultured family, a classically educated family, and you don't see that much 421 00:50:37.680 --> 00:50:42.680 nowadays. You probably wouldn't find somebody like that at Westminster. 422 00:50:42.680 --> 00:50:49.680 Okay, well, speaking of high standards, we thank you for the presentation.