WEBVTT NOTE From 'The Art of War' to the Science of Economics 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.400 It's fitting that you guys are here, sort of an international organization, because we are an international organization as well. 2 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:14.440 Above us, you'll see the names of the Hall of Fame of Austrian Economics, and these are people who have come from various countries around the world, 3 00:00:14.440 --> 00:00:22.040 Ireland, England, Belgium, France, Spain, Germany, Austria, and so on and so forth. 4 00:00:22.040 --> 00:00:28.080 We have graduate students here this summer from Eastern and Western Europe, 5 00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:31.760 The United States, Central America and so forth. 6 00:00:33.440 --> 00:00:34.440 So I just wanted to make that 7 00:00:34.440 --> 00:00:36.080 international connection with you. 8 00:00:36.080 --> 00:00:41.080 Our next speaker is Matthew McCaffrey 9 00:00:42.440 --> 00:00:45.600 from the New York area, educated in Colorado, 10 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.960 educated here at Auburn University 11 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.520 and is working on his PhD dissertation 12 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:53.880 at the University of Angers in France. 13 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:56.000 And he's gonna be speaking to us on the topic 14 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.680 of the Art of War to the Science of Economics. 15 00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:00.520 Matthew. 16 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:05.520 Thanks, Mark. 17 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.000 Well, good morning, and thank you all for being here. 18 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:12.160 Thank you for giving me an opportunity 19 00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:15.040 to talk about two of my favorite things, 20 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.760 economic ideas and the art of war. 21 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:21.840 If you're wondering about the title of my talk, 22 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:25.000 I'll be speaking of the ancient Chinese text, 23 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:31.000 Art of War, that's come to be known as Art of War, not some of the later books by the same name. 24 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:38.000 If I may, could I just have a show of hands for how many of you have actually, have any of you read the Art of War? 25 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:45.000 Oh, okay, so a pretty good number of you, okay. I figured. 26 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:53.000 Well, that's good. So, some of you probably know some of these basics already, but for those of you who don't, 27 00:01:53.000 --> 00:02:23.000 The Art of War is attributed to a historical figure, Sun Tzu, Master Sun, and it's supposed to have been written about the 5th or 6th century BC, although like most of these ancient texts, it was probably compiled later on by disciples, but anyway, now it's a classic in a number of genres, and it's been very influential, not just for military strategy, but also in business and politics and all sorts of fields that deal with strategy and conflict. 28 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:43.000 There are tons of books you can buy that claim to be able to make you a shrewd and successful businessman using the principles in the art of war or that say that if you use these principles you can learn to dominate your personal relationships and things like that, but that's not what I'm going to talk about. 29 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:51.000 What I want to do this morning is to discuss a little bit about how the art of war can help you think like an economist. 30 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:56.500 Because I think there are a lot of ideas in the book that can be interpreted in an economic way. 31 00:02:56.500 --> 00:03:04.500 Now as far as things like military strategy goes, I'm easily an amateur, so I'll try to stick to the economics as much as possible. 32 00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:14.500 So just to start out with something which is a very basic question, which is why might this text be interesting to economists? 33 00:03:14.500 --> 00:03:20.500 After all, it's rather old. In fact, it predates basically all economic thought. 34 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:25.500 and it doesn't claim to be about economics or politics, so what might be interesting about it? 35 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:33.500 And it turns out that what makes Sun Tzu fascinating is that he takes a very economic point of view when it comes to strategy 36 00:03:33.500 --> 00:03:39.500 and the problems of sort of thinking through how to advantageously resolve conflict. 37 00:03:39.500 --> 00:03:49.500 So what do I mean by this? Well, for those of you who have read it, you know that the art of war actually doesn't talk about war all that much. 38 00:03:49.500 --> 00:04:19.500 really what it does is is try to explain a series of abstract principles that are supposed to capture the essence of confrontation and conflict and the idea is that if we know these principles and we understand exactly how they apply in each situation then we in turn know from that what we must do how we must behave in order to achieve victory in whatever sphere that we're in 39 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:24.500 And it's because these principles are very general and they apply in all kinds of situations, 40 00:04:24.500 --> 00:04:31.500 that's why they've inspired so much interest and attracted scholars from so many diverse fields to this book. 41 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:37.500 So what I want to do this morning is to discuss some examples of this economic point of view in the art of war. 42 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:46.500 To begin with something fairly straightforward, one of the fundamental ideas of economics is that resources are scarce. 43 00:04:46.500 --> 00:05:16.500 This is, in fact, why we need economics, because we need to figure out ways to cope with the fact that we don't have an infinite amount of goods, we have a very limited amount, and so we have to solve this problem of how to make sure that the goods that we do have are put to their most valuable uses and not wasted, and that's what markets do, is solve this incredibly complicated problem of satisfying the wants of billions of people. 44 00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:21.500 So how does an idea like this relate to the kind of ideas you can read in the Art of War? 45 00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:32.500 Well, economics tells us that not only are resources scarce, but also that the economic base of society is often very fragile. 46 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:41.500 We work very hard for what we have, but oftentimes it doesn't take a lot to destroy the things that we've built. 47 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:48.500 And that's where Sun Tzu comes in, because this is something that he is very concerned about in his explanation of how to wage war. 48 00:05:48.500 --> 00:06:02.500 He is very concerned with the problem of destroying the things that we're supposed to preserve in the process of achieving our goals. 49 00:06:02.500 --> 00:06:08.500 He understands, for example, that warfare is a destructive activity that tears apart the social fabric, 50 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:12.060 and that this in turn causes misery for the masses. 51 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:15.100 So all throughout the art of war, 52 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:20.500 Sun Tzu emphasizes this idea that resources must be carefully preserved 53 00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:24.100 and he advises that for the wise general 54 00:06:24.100 --> 00:06:27.300 even the smallest amount of destruction is too much. 55 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:30.420 So for him, quote, the superior leader 56 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:34.060 must fight under heaven with the paramount aim of preservation. 57 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:37.940 The idea is that no matter what the conflict situation 58 00:06:37.940 --> 00:06:43.940 Victory is hollow if you destroy either yourself or what you want to win in the process. 59 00:06:43.940 --> 00:06:46.940 So, Pyrrhic victories are not victories at all. 60 00:06:46.940 --> 00:06:50.940 And this ties into one of the more famous principles in the art of war, 61 00:06:50.940 --> 00:06:54.940 that the greatest victory that one can achieve is to win without fighting. 62 00:06:54.940 --> 00:07:00.940 In other words, one's strategy should be so well prepared that an opponent cannot even make a first move 63 00:07:00.940 --> 00:07:03.940 because all options have already been taken away. 64 00:07:03.940 --> 00:07:18.940 And again, the reason Sun Tzu considers this to be the ultimate form of strategy is because to fight requires using up the scarce resources of the nation and inflicting terrible costs on the population. 65 00:07:18.940 --> 00:07:25.940 And these costs are another disadvantage of warfare that Sun Tzu points out. 66 00:07:25.940 --> 00:07:32.940 Related to this, one thing that has remained true about warfare across history is that wars are extremely expensive. 67 00:07:32.940 --> 00:07:37.940 and the costs ultimately have to be borne by the citizens of one nation or another 68 00:07:37.940 --> 00:07:42.940 and of course because resources are scarce this creates all kinds of problems for the citizens 69 00:07:42.940 --> 00:07:47.940 it's very easy to impoverish the nation through reckless spending 70 00:07:47.940 --> 00:07:52.940 so once again a wise commander in Sun Tzu's view 71 00:07:52.940 --> 00:07:56.940 will devise strategies that don't waste resources 72 00:07:56.940 --> 00:07:59.940 or endanger human well-being 73 00:07:59.940 --> 00:08:15.940 So this is the kind of economic point of view Sun Tzu uses to explain how to make strategy and it's a very important overall theme in the art of war that brilliant strategy is fundamentally about how to use scarce resources to their best advantage. 74 00:08:15.940 --> 00:08:24.940 These resources are physical and human resources. Using both is vital to truly understand how to achieve victory. 75 00:08:24.940 --> 00:08:29.580 The overarching principle then is that leaders should be efficient in all things. 76 00:08:29.580 --> 00:08:33.220 Efficiency is of course one of those ideas economists tend to focus on. 77 00:08:33.220 --> 00:08:39.620 The idea of achieving the greatest possible results 78 00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:47.260 from the sort of minimum amount of input, that comes through quite clearly in Sun Tzu's teachings. 79 00:08:47.260 --> 00:08:53.740 So with examples like this you can see that there sort of is some common ground here between economics and military strategy 80 00:08:53.740 --> 00:08:59.780 and how they think about these problems. I personally think it's quite useful to sort 81 00:08:59.780 --> 00:09:10.780 of conceptualize strategic behavior as a special branch of economic problem. But with this 82 00:09:10.780 --> 00:09:17.020 in mind, there's also a very big difference between economics and military strategy that 83 00:09:17.020 --> 00:09:23.260 we can talk about. As I mentioned a minute ago and as Danny briefly talked about at the 84 00:09:23.260 --> 00:09:37.260 At the end of his talk, every society has to figure out this amazingly difficult problem of what goods and services to produce, who should get them, and what kind of resources we should use to produce them. 85 00:09:37.260 --> 00:09:47.260 You can sort of imagine how complicated this gets in a global economy with tens of millions of goods to produce and billions of people to satisfy. 86 00:09:47.260 --> 00:10:12.260 So, just to sort of explain this, one aspect of this problem with an example, sort of like a classic example that economists use to explain what we're talking about is, let's assume that we're trying to solve some kind of economic problem, let's say we're trying to build a bridge, this requires a whole host of decisions about which resources to use. 87 00:10:12.260 --> 00:10:42.260 So, for example, we have to decide, well, in addition, of course, we do need people like engineers, right, to tell us how to actually build a bridge so that it doesn't collapse, but that's not enough. We need economic insight as well, because there are many different ways to build a bridge and some of those are going to be useful and efficient and some of them are just going to be wasteful. So let's say that you can, you know, choose to build a bridge using steel and concrete or you can choose 88 00:10:42.260 --> 00:10:45.980 to build it using something like platinum. 89 00:10:45.980 --> 00:10:48.460 It's with economic insight that you realize 90 00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:52.980 that one of those options is going to be extremely wasteful 91 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:54.880 because if you just think through it, of course, 92 00:10:54.880 --> 00:10:57.620 we realize that platinum is very scarce. 93 00:10:57.620 --> 00:11:00.260 So that means it has much more valuable uses 94 00:11:00.260 --> 00:11:03.500 that it could be used for than bridge construction. 95 00:11:03.500 --> 00:11:06.160 And that also means that it's gonna have a higher price 96 00:11:06.160 --> 00:11:08.840 than, say, steel or concrete. 97 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:10.980 And that's the key point in figuring out 98 00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:21.980 and how resources are allocated in the market, because all of these decisions involve sort of comparing apples and oranges in a way, comparing, say, steel to platinum. 99 00:11:21.980 --> 00:11:25.980 So the point is that we need a way to compare those things together. 100 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:34.980 We need a very simple way to just look at a resource and see whether or not it's rare and valuable, 101 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:49.980 This is exactly what the market does with prices. Prices give us this vital information about how to make the best use of our resources. 102 00:11:49.980 --> 00:12:02.980 It's because they have prices that markets tend to be quite efficient and extremely effective at satisfying people's wants, because everybody can use prices to guide their own decisions. 103 00:12:02.980 --> 00:12:06.980 This is the problem of economic calculation that Danny discussed. 104 00:12:06.980 --> 00:12:11.980 This is basically the defining characteristic of the market. 105 00:12:11.980 --> 00:12:18.980 You can see, of course, that in some ways the same type of problems will exist in warfare as well, 106 00:12:18.980 --> 00:12:22.980 especially with regard to organization and strategy and logistics and so on. 107 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:25.980 Knowing an objective isn't enough. 108 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:29.980 You have to figure out the resource problems first, how to get there, 109 00:12:29.980 --> 00:12:34.780 and if the cost of getting there is going to be greater than the benefits and to 110 00:12:34.780 --> 00:12:38.380 know those things you need some way of comparing the alternatives some way of 111 00:12:38.380 --> 00:12:44.380 calculating the cost and benefits. Now coming back to the text the problem is 112 00:12:44.380 --> 00:12:49.020 that even though Sun Tzu's approach for example acknowledges the importance of 113 00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:53.580 these kind of economic problems economics tells us that in the 114 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:57.300 framework of a military organization there's only so much that can be done to 115 00:12:57.300 --> 00:13:03.300 to solve them and what I mean is that markets, as I said, have ways to solve these problems 116 00:13:03.300 --> 00:13:09.320 that aren't available to other forms of organization like armies. Interactions in the market allow 117 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:14.700 us to figure out which uses of resources are efficient and useful and which ones are just 118 00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:20.420 wasteful like building the bridge out of platinum. And again, we can do this in the market because 119 00:13:20.420 --> 00:13:26.660 there are prices. But outside the market there are no prices so there's no way to really 120 00:13:26.660 --> 00:13:31.660 How can we resolve these problems, especially when they get more complicated? 121 00:13:31.660 --> 00:13:40.660 The example I used was very simple, but you can imagine much more complex versions that would be much more difficult to solve. 122 00:13:40.660 --> 00:13:47.660 So without prices, you need to use some other forms of management, some other guide to behavior. 123 00:13:47.660 --> 00:13:55.660 For example, you could use more bureaucratic methods of management, or you could have systems with a relatively rigid hierarchy. 124 00:13:55.660 --> 00:14:25.660 for example as is common in the military. In any case, so moving on a little bit, the next idea I want to talk about is entrepreneurship. This is another one of the very big themes in economics, the importance of the entrepreneur. Ludwig von Mises actually called entrepreneurs the driving force of the economy and by that he meant that they are the ones who improve our welfare by taking ideas and making ideas into reality. 125 00:14:25.660 --> 00:14:33.660 And they do this by putting their own resources at risk for the chance to produce something that consumers may find valuable. 126 00:14:33.660 --> 00:14:42.660 So with entrepreneurs, they're the ones who are really responsible for providing this enormous stream of goods and services that are available to us. 127 00:14:42.660 --> 00:14:47.660 And I think in general, people sort of understand how important entrepreneurs are. 128 00:14:47.660 --> 00:15:02.660 At least here in the US, there's always a big emphasis on encouraging people to be more entrepreneurial, to be innovative and creative in the market, and especially to make other people better off by doing that. 129 00:15:02.660 --> 00:15:15.660 But the reason I want to talk about entrepreneurs is that the kind of traits that entrepreneurs tend to have are very similar to the characteristics of the ideal commander in the art of war. 130 00:15:15.660 --> 00:15:22.060 and this this idea has actually spread throughout the business literature and 131 00:15:22.060 --> 00:15:26.860 in fact the art of war has even been taught in entrepreneurship courses at 132 00:15:26.860 --> 00:15:31.780 places you know as prestigious as Columbia University. So let's just look 133 00:15:31.780 --> 00:15:36.180 at a few of these entrepreneurial ideas. Some of the common characteristics are 134 00:15:36.180 --> 00:15:41.140 more obvious than others. A simple example relates to the idea of leadership. 135 00:15:41.140 --> 00:15:45.300 Entrepreneurs are leaders in the business world and they often you know 136 00:15:45.300 --> 00:15:55.300 have many employees and have to make decisions about what to do with, you know, vast amounts of resources and clearly this is also true for the military commander as well. 137 00:15:55.300 --> 00:16:05.300 Both kinds of behavior require taking on a leadership role and providing good judgment in directing the efforts of others. 138 00:16:05.300 --> 00:16:09.300 Although again, we should emphasize that the purposes of these activities are different. 139 00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:15.300 Entrepreneurs are making decisions about how to satisfy consumers, whereas military operations have different goals. 140 00:16:15.300 --> 00:16:22.300 Another way that people think about entrepreneurs is as the creators and innovators in society. 141 00:16:22.300 --> 00:16:30.300 As I said, one thing that entrepreneurs do is produce new products and services that consumers find valuable. 142 00:16:30.300 --> 00:16:34.300 And this requires a certain kind of insight into the world. 143 00:16:34.300 --> 00:16:42.300 Someone like Steve Jobs, for example, was a very successful entrepreneur, but he had to have a whole series of insights. 144 00:16:42.300 --> 00:16:56.300 He had to come up with ideas for iPhones and iPads and then figure out ways to actually make those products and bring them to market and to do all this at a price that people were willing to pay. 145 00:16:56.300 --> 00:17:02.300 And so that whole process requires an enormous amount of creativity and ingenuity. 146 00:17:02.300 --> 00:17:14.300 And the result is that things, products like the iPhone, they revolutionize markets and win the entrepreneurs substantial profits as a sort of reward for satisfying people. 147 00:17:14.300 --> 00:17:21.300 But another thing to point out is that these kind of products are, they're also innovations. 148 00:17:21.300 --> 00:17:29.300 The reason something like the iPhone was so successful at first is because Apple's competitors didn't see it coming. 149 00:17:29.300 --> 00:17:33.300 or if they did, they couldn't figure out a way to make their own version in time. 150 00:17:33.300 --> 00:17:38.300 It took everyone else more time to see that it was a valuable idea, 151 00:17:38.300 --> 00:17:43.300 whereas the people at Apple, they just judged in advance that it would be 152 00:17:43.300 --> 00:17:46.300 and they sort of put all their chips on that idea 153 00:17:46.300 --> 00:17:52.300 and then it turned out that they were right and then they became very successful for that. 154 00:17:52.300 --> 00:17:57.300 So anyway, this is the kind of competition that entrepreneurs face in the market. 155 00:17:57.300 --> 00:18:18.300 Success is always a race to see who can develop the best products, the fastest, and whether you win will be determined by your own knowledge, your creativity, and especially how good you are at speculating and judging about the future, and also in predicting the behavior of your competitors. 156 00:18:18.300 --> 00:18:30.300 So you can probably see where the analogy comes in, the art of war again is about all of these character traits that economists also happen to associate with successful entrepreneurship. 157 00:18:30.300 --> 00:18:38.300 So the next one that can be mentioned is that entrepreneurs take advantage of the strategic situation. 158 00:18:38.300 --> 00:18:47.300 Another way of saying this is that entrepreneurs are the ones who discover or create or exploit opportunities in the market. 159 00:18:47.300 --> 00:19:17.300 and this usually means coming up with a creative way to satisfy some want that people have just as an example you know right now as we're becoming increasingly involved in the digital age more and more people want goods like wireless internet access and so far this this service has been delivered in very conventional ways you sign up and you pay your bill and then you have Wi-Fi wherever your device you know is compatible but there's still 160 00:19:17.300 --> 00:19:28.300 and also large areas of the world that don't have this service, especially in places like Asia and Africa, where it's often impossible to get many traditional market services. 161 00:19:28.300 --> 00:19:34.300 And so this represents an opportunity for entrepreneurs to capture this market. 162 00:19:34.300 --> 00:19:42.300 And so in response to this, in fact I think starting this week, Google has begun to solve this problem in a really innovative way. 163 00:19:42.300 --> 00:19:48.300 You may have seen on the news Google plans to fly blimps and balloons all over the world 164 00:19:48.300 --> 00:19:56.300 that will broadcast a wireless signal to areas that can't otherwise get internet access. 165 00:19:56.300 --> 00:20:02.300 So whereas no one else saw this possibility to provide a service to consumers, 166 00:20:02.300 --> 00:20:09.300 Google, the entrepreneurs at Google, they did see the opportunity, and so now they will reap the benefits from that. 167 00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:22.300 And this relates back to the art of war, of course, Sun Tzu says that to be a master of strategy, you have to perceive the opportunities that nobody else, that everybody else misses, just as an entrepreneur does. 168 00:20:22.300 --> 00:20:32.300 It's only by seeing hidden possibilities or creating your own opportunities that you can take any situation and turn it to your own advantage. 169 00:20:32.300 --> 00:20:51.300 Sun Tzu calls this being unorthodox, and by this he means you must defy others' expectations of your behavior, you must confound your opponents by doing what is unexpected, and that is true of both in terms of military strategy and of course for entrepreneurs in the market. 170 00:20:51.300 --> 00:21:01.300 Another facet of success in the economy and in warfare is the ability to be infinitely adaptable. 171 00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:04.300 This is another big theme in Art of War. 172 00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:11.300 One of the major reasons entrepreneurs fail and go bankrupt in the market is because they become too rigid. 173 00:21:11.300 --> 00:21:18.300 They get used to producing the same products the same ways and they think that things will never change. 174 00:21:18.300 --> 00:21:27.300 So they crumble when new competition comes in to produce a better product or even produce the same product just at a lower cost. 175 00:21:27.300 --> 00:21:41.300 One very big example that we're seeing right now are the sort of ideas that we're seeing a lot of previously very successful corporations fail because their business models were based on things like brick and mortar locations. 176 00:21:41.300 --> 00:22:11.300 in the pre-digital age when you needed to go to a store to buy things but of course now that basically all the services they offer are available in some electronic form their stores are now basically useless and they're going bankrupt because of that so this is an example example of being not adaptable enough in warfare Sun Tzu calls this 177 00:22:11.300 --> 00:22:16.700 Formalist, being constantly able to change strategies and tactics to respond to the changing 178 00:22:16.700 --> 00:22:19.260 world around you. 179 00:22:19.260 --> 00:22:22.020 So I'm running out of time, so I'll just make one last point very quickly. 180 00:22:22.020 --> 00:22:26.100 Another advantage entrepreneurs need to have is superior knowledge, knowledge of what consumers 181 00:22:26.100 --> 00:22:31.880 want in the future, where the market is moving, what your competitors will do. 182 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:36.380 One famous economist, Friedrich Hayek, he was a student of Ludwig von Mises, even said 183 00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:42.380 I think that the most important problem that society faces is how to use the knowledge we have available to us. 184 00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:46.380 So knowledge is key, and of course this is true for Sun Tzu as well. 185 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:49.380 Knowledge is maybe the most important resource you can possess. 186 00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:52.380 You probably know the most famous passage from Art of War. 187 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:57.380 Thus it is said that one who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be endangered in a hundred engagements. 188 00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:02.380 That reflects the kind of idea we're talking about, that what we know, what we think we know, 189 00:23:02.380 --> 00:23:06.380 They have a very huge impact on our action and on our success. 190 00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:12.380 Of course, it's not just the knowledge we have, but how we use it that matters. 191 00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:16.380 This is another place where you can see this analogy between strategy and entrepreneurship. 192 00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:26.380 So, to sort of just sum up, let me just point out that success in markets and in warfare 193 00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:33.080 both depend on being able to deploy exactly the right resources in the right place at the right time. 194 00:23:33.080 --> 00:23:38.580 This is something that economics and Sun Tzu have in common, and that's what the art of war is all about, 195 00:23:38.580 --> 00:23:44.580 and that's why businessmen and social scientists have been so fascinated with this text. 196 00:23:44.580 --> 00:23:46.580 So, thank you very much, everyone.